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Need help with family heirloom
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Joe Warise
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 Posted: Sun Aug 23rd, 2009 07:57 pm
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Hi, I just joined AFCA about a week ago. I’m not really a collector…yet…rather, I have recently discovered that the old GE fan that’s been in the family for 70-80 years is probably a little more than just an old fan… My intention is to restore the fan as closely as possible to original condition and full functionality while preserving much of the patina of age. From browsing the site/forums over the past month, the folks here seem to be a wonderful, helpful bunch of people and that is what I need to make this goal possible.

Below are some facts (or things I think I know) and questions I need help with. Thank you in advance for your assistance.

1. From the serial # and form number I think this pancake fan was manufactured in 1903. Type AK, Form C, Serial No. 174670
2. What was the original bearing? My grandfather acquired the fan because the original bearing was worn out, probably in the late 1920’s or early 1930’s. He poured a babbit bearing that was later replace with an oilite bearing by my father during the 1960’s. It feels like it needs some attention.
3. Also, the rotor shaft is definitely worn. I haven’t measured it but I can feel the front and rear wear steps. Are replacement shafts available?
4. The fan is missing the original switch…and apparently a speed coil? Who would have one or where could I find one?
5. From the pictures, are the fan blades original? Most fans of this age I’ve seen in pictures have a different shape.
6. Any recommended sources for motor work? The stator needs to be cleaned up, evaluated, possibly rewound/wrapped, etc.
7. Was there some type of fitting on the motor housing opposite the oil tank? This fan has another hole at this location where my father installed a hollow bolt with wick material for oiling. I’ve seen pictures where it looks like there is a brass fitting of some type at this location.
8. I am going to need assistance with repairing the cage as I feel this will be above my level of expertise. The back ring will probably need replacing. Suggestions?

That’s all for now, I’m sure there will be more as I get further into the restoration.

Thanks
Joe Warise

Attached Image (viewed 543 times):

IMG_0919.JPG

Last edited on Mon Aug 24th, 2009 02:34 am by Joe Warise

Nicholas Denney
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 Posted: Sun Aug 23rd, 2009 09:01 pm
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William, I am not the pancake guru (don't worry, there are many) but I have to say that your cake is not in the best of shape, even if you just want to get it running, much less 100% correct.

The only thing that looks intact from here is the body of the fan itself, which is good. :up:

Steve Sherwood
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 Posted: Sun Aug 23rd, 2009 09:33 pm
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Where do you live? Maybe some one near you could help. That fan needs a major restoration. It can be done but getting all the correct parts will be a challenge. I would start by finding a donor fan that has most of the parts you need.

 

Steve Sherwood

Last edited on Sun Aug 23rd, 2009 09:34 pm by Steve Sherwood

Kim Frank
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 Posted: Sun Aug 23rd, 2009 09:35 pm
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Fan appears to be a transitional 1903 half ribbed, trunnion mounted fan. Not seen real often. It has a ten s-wire cage that appears could use a new back ring. The top strut is missing. The blade on the fan isn't correct. It would have had pizza slice shaped wings mounted on either a stamped brass or cast brass hub. Either would be correct. The switch would have been a five speed, made of porcelain and would have had a metal adapter plate on it for attachment to the base. The early '03's used the round switch from the back mounts, then transitioned to the adapter plate before having the mounting ears molded into the switch in '04. The switch will be hard to find and you will pay dearly for it. The five speed choke coil can be had from Sartron. It's a perfect replacement and works great. You are probably seeing where the oil wick has worn into the shaft. Not a big deal. The bearing is a bronze or brass sleeve, 3/8th od and 5/16ths id and is easily made. Once you make the determination if the motor needs worked on, then Sidney Lamb will be your guy. They are usually pretty hardy and seldom need more than cleaning and reinsulation and new leads put on. The three rubber feet, and delrin grommets are also easy to come by. Hope this helps and good luck.

Kim Frank
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 Posted: Sun Aug 23rd, 2009 09:38 pm
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Last edited on Sun Aug 23rd, 2009 09:38 pm by Kim Frank

Kim Frank
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 Posted: Sun Aug 23rd, 2009 09:38 pm
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Oh...and by the way...did I mention "Bling"?

Attached Image (viewed 525 times):

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Last edited on Sun Aug 23rd, 2009 09:40 pm by Kim Frank

David Hunter
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 Posted: Sun Aug 23rd, 2009 09:40 pm
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I was going to say Kim, you must post a pic of one of your restored 03 Pancakes for William to see what is possible. Also, William, welcome to the AFCA, but watch out for the fan police. : )

Last edited on Sun Aug 23rd, 2009 10:17 pm by David Hunter

Steve Stephens
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 Posted: Sun Aug 23rd, 2009 09:52 pm
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William Warise wrote:
My intention is to restore the fan as closely as possible to original condition and full functionality while preserving much of the patina of age.
Joe Warise

Yeah, that's a great idea and I hope you stick with it. "Bling" is not needed to make a nice GE pancake.

Since the fan is a family fan you might want to get it restored. It would be cheaper I think to find an identical or similar fan than to have yours restored unless you can do much of the work. Once restored including electrically and mechanically these pancakes are the equal of just about any fan for usefulness and easy running. I love 'em!

Oh, I am the one called by some the "fan police" for my love of original fans and patina and my penchant to encourage people to leave fans original. You don't have to worry though as I don't cite people who do their own thing. Good luck. I think Kim covered all the bases on your fan as well as good advice from the other answers. I even learned several things from Kim's post; he knows his pancakes.

Kim Frank
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 Posted: Sun Aug 23rd, 2009 10:02 pm
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Steve Stephens wrote: William Warise wrote:
My intention is to restore the fan as closely as possible to original condition and full functionality while preserving much of the patina of age.
Joe Warise

Yeah, that's a great idea and I hope you stick with it. "Bling" is not needed to make a nice GE pancake.



Joe, Steve is correct. Bling is not needed, but it sure attracts the ladies.

And Steve really is the Chief of the fan Police.....always trys to keep us honest!!!

Last edited on Sun Aug 23rd, 2009 10:09 pm by Kim Frank

David Hunter
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 Posted: Sun Aug 23rd, 2009 10:15 pm
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Honestly, Steve gave me a $500 ticket and cited me for "incorrect screw usage." Well, I guess the AFCA has to raise money somehow.

Steve Stephens
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 Posted: Sun Aug 23rd, 2009 10:31 pm
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David Hunter wrote:
Honestly, Steve gave me a $500 ticket and cited me for "incorrect screw usage."
I know my comment caused you at least $500 worth of pain. Very sorry David. At least you took care of my "fixit ticket".

Russell Petta
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 Posted: Sun Aug 23rd, 2009 11:04 pm
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Kim Frank wrote: Steve Stephens wrote: William Warise wrote:
My intention is to restore the fan as closely as possible to original condition and full functionality while preserving much of the patina of age.
Joe Warise

Yeah, that's a great idea and I hope you stick with it. "Bling" is not needed to make a nice GE pancake.



Joe, Steve is correct. Bling is not needed, but it sure attracts the ladies.

And Steve really is the Chief of the fan Police.....always trys to keep us honest!!!
HEY KIM!! A mouth full of diamond studded gold teeth and a big watermellon smile will also attract some (ladies ????.) 'NOW THAT'S BLING'..

David Hunter
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 Posted: Sun Aug 23rd, 2009 11:10 pm
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This thread has been a rather hilarious introduction to the AFCA for William. I think we scared him off guys.

Kim Frank
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 Posted: Sun Aug 23rd, 2009 11:14 pm
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Russ...I ain't going there again..........oh,,, what the heck!

Larry, no need to send an email when this gets yanked...lol

Attached Image (viewed 492 times):

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David Hunter
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 Posted: Sun Aug 23rd, 2009 11:23 pm
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Wow Frank, now that is bling!

Russell Petta
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 Posted: Sun Aug 23rd, 2009 11:51 pm
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KIM, "YOU DA MAN"

Kim Frank
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 Posted: Mon Aug 24th, 2009 12:24 am
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Joe, this is just a bunch of us having a bit of fun. Seriously, whatever any of us can help you with, You just give us a holler. I am fairly familiar with the GE pancakes and will be more than happy to help out as I can.

Joe Warise
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 Posted: Mon Aug 24th, 2009 03:36 am
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Well, as I expected, looks like I’ve come to the right place. I think I’m going to fit in here nicely.

Nicholas, Thanks for responding. I tested the fan before I started disassembly and it did run, albeit slower than I remembered from my childhood. The picture above was after I temporarily reassembled it for this photo. I forgot to get a true before picture. The fan as pictured above is after quite a bit of cleaning.

Steve Sherwood, I live in Murfreesboro, Tennessee and I accept the challenge.

Kim, Wow…all I can say is wow!!! :clap: Thanks for all the information. This helps a lot. What about the hole locate 180 degrees from the oil tank hole on the motor housing? Is that original and if so, what is supposed to be there? Also, is there any reason or would it have been common to round the leading edge of the blades (or is the proper terminology “wings” since they are airfoils)? The reason I ask is that both my father and grandfather were always modifying things which could explain the change.

Let it be known, that I’m officially looking for a 5 speed switch for a 1903 pancake.

David, Thanks for the welcome and no you haven’t run me off. I actually find this very entertaining.

Steve Stephens, I may “bling out” my next fan but for now I’m going for all original…on my fan…as difficult as that may be. The only deviation may be the blades. Since this is a family heirloom and these blades are all we have ever known (my grandfather may have replaced them) and I don’t intend for it to necessarily be a true collectors piece…see where I’m going? One other debate I’m having with myself is how far to take the polishing and whether to repaint or not. As you may have already guessed, I've already polished some on the blade.

By the way Kim, my dog was in my lap until that picture…we are still looking for him.

Below is a picture of the fan disassembled.

Attached Image (viewed 421 times):

IMG_0897.JPG

Last edited on Mon Aug 24th, 2009 03:43 am by Joe Warise

Richard Larson
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 Posted: Mon Aug 24th, 2009 11:10 am
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The blades you have are from a later model GE. I'd guess by the looks of the cage repair it got knocked over while running at some point and damaged the original blade beyond repair along with some damage to the cage. The hole above bearing is for a set screw to lock the bearing in place. As mentioned the hardest part to get will be the 5 speed switch. Sartron makes a nice replacement spped coil. The back ring on the cage looks pretty much shot. I do happen to have a 10 wire cage back ring that came on a pancake have that I could send you but you will have a bit of a challenge attaching it. Another option would be to have another member experienced with that do it for you. Not me though - I've never tried it myself. I bought a similar GE at one point that the cage was all missing except for the back ring.

Last edited on Mon Aug 24th, 2009 11:16 am by Richard Larson

Kim Frank
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 Posted: Mon Aug 24th, 2009 11:13 am
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The hole on top of the bearing housing is for a keeper screw. Keeps the sleeve bearing from moving around, although the sleeve is pressed in and usually tight. Here's what you're missing underneath, with some slight differences. Your blade probably came off of a little later model of fan, along the lines of a small motor yoke, collar oscillator, Roundback osc etc. It would have a 5/16ths hub to fit a cake.

Attached Image (viewed 394 times):

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Last edited on Mon Aug 24th, 2009 11:29 am by Kim Frank

Kim Frank
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 Posted: Mon Aug 24th, 2009 11:42 am
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William Warise wrote:   Kim, my dog was in my lap until that picture…we are still looking for him.

.

That is a pic of a member who purchased some "bling" for his fan. He was so inspired by how it made his fan look that he went all out on himself. His life is finally complete and he has had to get restraining orders on several admirers.

Chad Baker
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 Posted: Mon Aug 24th, 2009 03:10 pm
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Kim,

I thought that photo was taken before he left out for California with his dog.  I remember him saying that he had the CRV full of bling to install on some plain pancakes on the west coast.

Last edited on Mon Aug 24th, 2009 03:10 pm by Chad Baker

Kim Frank
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 Posted: Mon Aug 24th, 2009 04:15 pm
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I don't think "Install" was quite the word he used!!!!!!  and I don't remember pancakes coming up in the conversation. And I found it odd...him saying something about where the sun doesn't shine.....seems strange since "bling" looks so good in the light....

Last edited on Mon Aug 24th, 2009 04:19 pm by Kim Frank

Steve Stephens
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 Posted: Mon Aug 24th, 2009 05:12 pm
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This is a 1904 pancake but shows what the proper parts you are missing look like especially the coil clamp which was used in 1903-04 and changed in '05 to the cone style. (Edit: clamps may have been brass for 1903 instead of the steel shown here). The coil clamp has two identical pieces that clamp the coil in place from the top and bottom. You don't see the top clamp piece in this photo but it's there. Being as how a switch will be hard to find you will probably be happy with any 5 speed switch that you can mount and make work. You will also need a switch handle (Mike Petree has made some excellent ones) and a switch knob brass pointer.

Attached Image (viewed 338 times):

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Last edited on Tue Aug 25th, 2009 03:12 am by Steve Stephens

Kim Frank
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 Posted: Mon Aug 24th, 2009 06:21 pm
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Steve Stephens wrote:

Oh, I am the one called by some the "fan police" for my love of original fans and patina and my penchant to encourage people to leave fans original.
That there sure is some fine patina there on the bottom of that there fan. Fine I say! Love the way those feet have patinaed over the years. Why, one of 'em has completely patinaed away.

Doug Handley
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 Posted: Mon Aug 24th, 2009 06:25 pm
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Kim Frank wrote: Steve Stephens wrote:

Oh, I am the one called by some the "fan police" for my love of original fans and patina and my penchant to encourage people to leave fans original.
That there sure is some fine patina there on the bottom of that there fan. Fine I say! Love the way those feet have patinaed over the years. Why, one of 'em has completely patinaed away.

This is a great aid in helping one acquire patina on his table tops.  A too be desired condition.

Chad Baker
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 Posted: Mon Aug 24th, 2009 06:33 pm
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Kim Frank wrote: Steve Stephens wrote:

Oh, I am the one called by some the "fan police" for my love of original fans and patina and my penchant to encourage people to leave fans original.
That there sure is some fine patina there on the bottom of that there fan. Fine I say! Love the way those feet have patinaed over the years. Why, one of 'em has completely patinaed away.


Kim,

Once again you have overlooked something (jr. fan police in training).  Those original GE Factory Cob Webs!!  Maybe you can start making Blinging Cob Webs for exact replacement into the bottom of your GE Pancakes.  Something tells me that the spider that spun those webs probably looks like your happy customer from above.

Steve Stephens
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 Posted: Mon Aug 24th, 2009 07:44 pm
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That's not my fan guys and it is showing William what the proper coil clamp pieces look like.

Last edited on Mon Aug 24th, 2009 07:45 pm by Steve Stephens

Kim Frank
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 Posted: Mon Aug 24th, 2009 09:01 pm
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The switch on the right is what you are looking for....photo courtesy of Todd Mann.

Attached Image (viewed 302 times):

GE cake switch.jpg

Kim Frank
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 Posted: Mon Aug 24th, 2009 09:05 pm
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Here's the underside of a cleaned up '03, with some liberties taken.

Attached Image (viewed 299 times):

100_5920.jpg

Joe Warise
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 Posted: Tue Aug 25th, 2009 02:37 am
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Thanks for the pictures of what the underside looks like Steve and Kim. I must say Kim, that wiring on both fans is a work of art...did you do that? Looks like the ends of the cloth insulation is wrapped with thread? Can I assume that the black bracket in Steve's picture would be original or is the brass version original for my fan?

This gets deeper all the time. The more I learn the more questions I have. I really appreciate everything you guys are doing to help.

Another picture.

Attached Image (viewed 278 times):

IMG_0902.JPG

Steve Stephens
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 Posted: Tue Aug 25th, 2009 03:02 am
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user=25195]William Warise[/user] wrote:
Can I assume that the black bracket in Steve's picture would be original or is the brass version original for my fan?

This is the 1903 version just before yours with four struts. Look, gold (brass?) speed coil brackets. I would assume, especially after seeing Kim's photos above that brass brackets would be correct, at least on the earlier 1903 pancakes. By 1904 they seem to have become steel.

I checked my early '03 pancake to see what speed coil bracket material it has. Whoops: it's got the '05 and later cone shaped speed coil bracket. (Anyone have a set of earlier style brackets in brass or iron?)

Attached Image (viewed 282 times):

'03 pancake base.jpg

Last edited on Tue Aug 25th, 2009 03:16 am by Steve Stephens

Kim Frank
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 Posted: Tue Aug 25th, 2009 11:06 am
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The choke clamp is brass and is original. It was painted black before I redid the fan. The discs on the later fans also held a bottom cover, leaving only the cord terminals exposed.

Steve Stephens
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 Posted: Tue Aug 25th, 2009 04:18 pm
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Kim Frank wrote:
The discs on the later fans also held a bottom cover, leaving only the cord terminals exposed.
Like on this 1906 pancake. Cardboard cover and cone shaped coil retainer used on 1905-08 pancakes.

Attached Image (viewed 199 times):

y948mBASE CARDBOARD.JPG.jpg

Adam Rohn
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 Posted: Tue Oct 6th, 2009 11:53 pm
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Kim,

What kind of paint is that on the base? Looks to be a metallic paint. I really pops with the brass feet

Mark Goodrich
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 Posted: Wed Oct 7th, 2009 12:54 am
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Joe, the actual answers to all your questions can be had the first weekend in November.  Just follow the blue line: 
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&hl=en&geocode=&saddr=murfreesboro&daddr=harrison+ar&sll=30.269999,-97.797359&sspn=0.013528,0.027852&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=8

Buried in the home page of this website under "INFO" is an "EVENTS" link.  Look for the November fan workshop at Geoff Dunaway's.  Take the fan along with you.  You will meet a number of people who think they are experts, one or two who are actual experts, and will be astonished at the assemblage of more than 3,000 electric fans under one roof.

Here's the trick:  show up, look confused, hold a screwdriver by the wrong end, and pretty soon someone will be fixing your fan for you while you enjoy a refreshing beverage.  Has worked for me many, many times.

Regarding the bearing:  again in the INFO section is a list of restoration suppliers.  Darryl Hudson will have the correct bearing.  But before you buy one, you've a lot of investigation to do to see if the fan is financially salvageable.  Which brings us back to the map link.

Joe Warise
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 Posted: Wed Oct 7th, 2009 01:46 am
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Mark, I did see the workshop listed in the events section. Unfortunately, that weekend is already booked for me or I would probably be there.

Thanks to Kim Frank, Richard Larson and Steve Stephens I'm well on my way. Got a back ring for the cage, cord, set screws, bearing, correct struts, grommets and feet...as well as some valuable insights. I've cleaned up most of the parts and will soon be ready to paint and polish. The main issue I have is finding some critical parts. I'm needing a complete blade assembly, switch, speed coil (with mounting bracket). Since this fan has spent about 80 of it's 106 years in my family, bringing it back to life is, to an extent, not a financial issue.

Thanks for your post.

Last edited on Wed Oct 7th, 2009 02:20 am by Joe Warise

Steve Stephens
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 Posted: Wed Oct 7th, 2009 03:46 am
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Joe Warise wrote:
I'm needing a complete blade assembly, switch, speed coil (with mounting bracket).
The switch will be the hard part to find Joe. The speed coil may best be bought new from Sartron and you can most any brass 12" GE blade on the fan until you find the correct one. In fact, a blade should make your fan look good and complete until you can get the other remaining parts needed.


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