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Russ Huber
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Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 04:31 am |
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| Just curious if anyone has a 20s? Chicago made Bodine Electric Co. motor about the size and shape of a Muskmelon with 2 winding stator and armature? The thing has one motor tag on one end of the motor stating 110 VAC. On the other end facing the opposite direction is another motor tag with 110 VDC. Both the motor tags state RAY-DI-CO. I KNOW it is a Bodine motor despite the motor tags. The end cap on the motor says...Bodine. Here's the kicker, there is a commutator on the back end with brushes and terminals. On the other end where the armature shaft exits there are offset brushes riding on what appears to be copper bands. The two bands appear to be insulated from one another. There are screw terminals on the ends of the brush holders. Ok electrically gifted ones...what is the purpose of the funky motor and can anyone give history on Ray-DI-Co. of Chicago? Thanks!
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Russ Huber
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Posted: Wed Nov 4th, 2009 02:41 am |
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When I get back home I am going to nail what this motor is all about.  A Muskmellon with 4 feet and 4 brushes. 
Can ANYONE help me as to who in the h ell RAY-DI-CO. is? I'm serious dudes....I don't know?  Can't find Jack on the web.
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Jerry F Bacon
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Posted: Wed Nov 4th, 2009 03:17 am |
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Robot Russ,
It might be a motor generator, putting out 110 vdc.
Cheers from an admirer
JFB
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Loren Haroldson
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Posted: Wed Nov 4th, 2009 11:18 am |
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It's just like it sounds. RayDiCo was Radio... They owned WGAS one of the first Chicago radio stations. I'll guess that motor had some purpose uniquely rated to radio station usage? Check out the Bodine History. They specifically state that part of the reason for their formation was to create unique motors for different situations. They point out that too many concerns relied on using fan motors for whatever purpose they needed a motor for: with not so good results. Ask Rod R about this motor. The station went up in the early 20's, he might have helped build the tower even?
Check with Bill F too. He's an old radio tech junkie. Google motor/generator for more clues. There weren't that many radio stations back then. Grab and find a collector and make a buck...?? This WGAS evolved into WGN radio. So if the above can be confirmed, you might have a neat little gadget that some collector would really like to get his mitts on?
Last edited on Wed Nov 4th, 2009 01:01 pm by Loren Haroldson
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Randy Rohr
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Posted: Wed Nov 4th, 2009 11:51 am |
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Russ,
This does sound like a motor /generator set. The off-set brushes are for slip rings which either 'excite' a wound rotor on the AC side, and/ or bring AC out.
Also this could be an DC/ AC converter (first version of a VFD) that might furnish non-standard AC such as 20-40 Hz or 125-140Hz to special equipment.
As an AC/DC converter (before Rectifiers of any type) it could have been used to furnish DC to big transmitting tube filiments, drive relays, etc.
In other words this is an AC/DC machine that could go both ways!
Send a pic when you can- may help to refine speculation.
Randy Rohr
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Russ Huber
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Posted: Wed Nov 4th, 2009 03:20 pm |
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Thanks dudes...even you Jerry. Man...did Loren put the hammer down or what? Geeze Loren, the only station I thought Chicago had was WLS back when bell bottom pants and afros were hot. No disco for me dudes. 
Hey Loren, it's my week to wear the dentures bud...I have been eating apple sauce for two weeks now.....cough em up! 
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Russ Huber
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Posted: Thu Nov 5th, 2009 05:28 am |
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When I got home I made the Muskmellon thing of a jig more presentable. AFCA member Gary Heidenfeldt gave me a buzz and told me he felt it was a voltage converter. He felt you could put AC in on the AC side and get DC on the other...and visa versa. I questioned why a generator had a shaft extending from the armature? Gary thought maybe it ran a cooling fan? The brush holders on the DC side are internal in the rear riding on the armature commutator. The brushes on the AC side ride on insulated side by side smooth copper/brass rings. The muskmellon whatever it is...is 11"X 7" and weighs in at........36 Lbs.  Attached Image (viewed 511 times):
 Last edited on Thu Nov 5th, 2009 06:58 am by Russ Huber
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Russ Huber
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Posted: Thu Nov 5th, 2009 05:29 am |
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Russ Huber
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Posted: Thu Nov 5th, 2009 06:03 am |
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| I bought and had this delivered to Loren's pad. I hired three gorillas from the YMCA weight room to deliver and place it at his front door. Attached Image (viewed 506 times):
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Randy Rohr
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Posted: Thu Nov 5th, 2009 10:09 am |
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Hey Russ,
I like this 'Musk Mellon'. Let me know if you want to sell it?
I hadn't thought about the shaft- could be yet another use I hadn't thought of- a dual AC & DC alternator/ generator when driven externally.
Truely a multi purpose electrical device!
Randy Rohr
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Fred Berry
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Posted: Thu Nov 5th, 2009 12:38 pm |
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Randy,
I would like to bring this "musk melon" over to your place to glom voltage readings on the DC output side. Maybe we can reverse it and power through the DC side and produce AC current from the slip-rings on the AC side? AC side is interesting: It has a stationary squirrel cage rotor and a rotating, wound field. Both rotating field and DC armature are on same shaft and this machine rotates at 1800RPM. This baby weighs in at around 100+ pounds.
Russ will remember this when it was on eBay. I think he posted photos here at one time. Russ, I think this is bigger than your MG-set. Yours looks awesome! It appears to have an axial commutator and radial slip-rings.
Attached Image (viewed 492 times):
 Last edited on Thu Nov 5th, 2009 12:40 pm by Fred Berry
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Randy Rohr
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Posted: Thu Nov 5th, 2009 01:26 pm |
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Fred,
If you want to lug it, I'll chug it.
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Russ Huber
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Posted: Thu Nov 5th, 2009 01:47 pm |
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| I remember Fred's converter as a Fort Wayne. The Bodine tags show 110 voltage on both ends. Loren is right regarding the Bodine Electric website sporting a history link and and a condensed product timeline. The Bodine founders Paul and Carl Bodine were at it starting around 05. I would feel fairly confident this was a 20s Bodine product, and would love to know just exactly how it was used and where it came from. Probably a snow balls chance in h ell on that one. I found it many miles from Chicago. Last edited on Thu Nov 5th, 2009 01:51 pm by Russ Huber
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Russ Huber
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 09:23 pm |
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I haven't powered this Bodine up yet. Why, cause I'm not done getting it ready to power up...ok.
The front oil cup was missing and a small chunk of the threaded casting. I went to my buddy Steve and asked him if there was some way he could braze or weld a bead on and drill and tap it. He told me to take a hike. So...I kept my head dudes under fire. Psssst....I already had a plan B before Steve buckeled under the pressure. Plan B was epoxy putty weld. I had to clean the fractured area real slick so the putty had something firm to hang on to when dry. I then put a thin film of oil around the threaded end of the cup half way down. Next I kneaded up a small chunk of the two part putty epoxy to go. I then started threading the remaining oil cup with my other index finger appling pressure on the other side of the cup threads. Using this method despite the missing threaded cast metal I could thread the cup up high enough to hold in place. I then eyeballed it straight... and put the activated epoxy putty around the cup where the fractured cast was missing. I then let it set for just a few moments and started carving off the excess with a sharp utility knife. You have to work fast as this putty sets up hard within 15-20 minutes? Being I pressed the putty around the cup there was no need for threading...the threads were already formed. After the putty was set within 20 to 30 minutes, I began filing and sanding until.....look at the picture. Being this is not a load bearing missing section of cast it should hold fast. All I have to do is paint it. The oil cup threads in an out like down town. Later dudes. Attached Image (viewed 472 times):
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Russ Huber
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Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2009 07:49 am |
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Can someone please give me some help? I have the armature out of this Bodine motor. On the rear of the armature there is a commutator. Now...on the front of the armature are two copper bands that are insulated from each other. The brush holders are inserted in offset castings so one brush to a separate copper band. Now...thank God I released the front copper band to find out that two fine copper wires were torn free from the solder joint on the band. Just for poops and giggles I released the other copper band to find out...the same. I checked continuity from one wire of the first band and found flow to one wire for the second band...not both. I moved the meter probe to the other wire and found continuity to the other single wire for the second band..but not both.
So...is all that has to be done is to solder the correct two wires back on the front ring...and the correct two wires on the back ring and slap the copper bands and insulators back together? Or...does something sound not good here? Thanks in advance. Last edited on Mon Nov 9th, 2009 07:50 am by Russ Huber
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Randy Rohr
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Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2009 09:35 am |
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Russ,
You were right the first time. I'd still like to buy this thing!
Randy Rohr
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Fred Berry
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Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2009 01:58 pm |
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Russ, please post a few photos of the rotor/armature! I would like to see it. The "bands" you are talking about sound to me like radial slip-rings. If not connected to the rotor, then no power. Is the AC-side of the rotor wound? If so, this could possibly be another rotating field motor. Does the stationary AC side have squirrel cage or windings? Post photos of the fields too if you can.
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Russ Huber
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Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2009 03:42 pm |
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Randy, for now...I would just like to "fix this thing" and see it do its magic.:) I have never worked on one of these converters before.
Fred...there are no "slip rings" on this thing that I am aware of. Unless that is the term used on these SET IN PLACE copper rings. I put a quarter in the picture so you can get an idea of the size of things.
Notice the four small paired wires exiting the front of the hard rubber insulation on the armature. They must have insulating varnish over them. I can put a meter probe on the end of one wire of a pair on one side, yet get continuity on a SPECIFIC wire of the pair on the other side. This applies the same if I switch the probe to the other wires of each side.
I have the copper rings and insulators laid in order of assembly. Do notice the solder joints where "common sense" would tell me each PAIR of wires gets soldered to the INSIDE of the copper ring. Somebody must of tried before me to remove those copper rings and in process rotated them while removing(rotating)the insulator ahead of it. This rotation would of severed the soldered connection of the pair of wires to the copper ring conductor.
To those that know...based on my continuity findings, are things in order that I can just simply solder the paired wires back on to the correct copper ring conductors? Thanks!Attached Image (viewed 424 times):
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Russ Huber
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Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2009 03:43 pm |
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Randy Rohr
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Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2009 04:03 pm |
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Russ,
You are in luck that both pairs of wires have continuity. The AC and DC windings are co-wound- that is the AC windings are wound underneath the DC windings. You are correct that the pairs of leads are matched because the rotor is wound with one winding around several slots and another is wound 90 degrees out around the remaining slots. These need to be wired in the correct phase with one another, but since their length implies which ring they were attached to you are good to go- solder the first pair to the closest ring and the other pair to the outer ring. Use heat srink tubing if needed.
You might want to put this thing on a 'growler' to make sure you don't have any shorted windings before investing much more time.
Good luck,
Randy Rohr
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Russ Huber
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Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2009 04:14 pm |
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Much thanks Randy. Your post is most interesting and I mean that most sincerely. It is a blessing to have members like yourself that are knowledgeable in such things and so willing to share. I am no electrical genius...but I can baffle you with BS. I do it all the time. 
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Randy Rohr
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Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2009 05:40 pm |
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Russ,
My pleasure. Baffle who?
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Fred Berry
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Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2009 05:53 pm |
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Fred...there are no "slip rings" on this thing that I am aware of. Unless that is the term used on these SET IN PLACE copper rings. I put a quarter in the picture so you can get an idea of the size of things.
Russ, if the brushes ride those, then they're slip rings. My bad, seeing the terminals on the rear of the motor, I was thinking radial slip rings. These are axial. I would love to see the armature/rotor fully assembled with its slip-rings on one end and commutator on the other. This is a NEAT machine!
My Fort Wayne converter is actually more of an MG-set. Although on the same shaft, my machine has the DC armature separate from the wound rotating AC stator, you can see into the abundant vent holes and see shaft between the two.
With its exposed shaft, your machine could be driven from an exterior source and generate AC or DC at your whim. I hope that when you growl the armature, it turns out to be OK. The windings look good to me in the photos you posted.
When I was younger, I had several "dynamotors" from old military surplus. These were used mainly on aircraft to power the higher voltage radio tubes. These had armatures that looked similar to yours, except they had commutators on each end and no external motor-shaft. They generally had 5 to 36 VDC input at fairly high amperage, and the generator side usually put out around 400VDC. I wish I had kept these...I had a real sweet Western Electric model, perched on its own junction box.
but I can baffle you with BS.
"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with BS."
An old saying.
Last edited on Mon Nov 9th, 2009 05:55 pm by Fred Berry
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Russ Huber
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Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2009 06:11 pm |
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"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with BS."
I have been a professional donut hole cutter for 30 years. You dudes would have never of guessed that in a million years.
If all goes to plan, I will post pictures of the finished armature. I really feel no need to have it growled. The armature appears very healthy, and the proof will be in its finished performance. The work has not been that time consumning. Just have to be very careful with those fine wires exiting the armature. Later dudes. Last edited on Mon Nov 9th, 2009 06:12 pm by Russ Huber
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Russ Huber
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Posted: Tue Nov 10th, 2009 07:12 pm |
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| I did just like you said Randy, I spliced a longer wire to one of the pair of shorter wires so it would reach the outide slip ring. I then snipped the excess off of one of the longer wires and soldered it to the inner slip ring. Now there is continuity between the two slip rings. Now, all I have to do is clean up the motor and give it a whirl. Thanks again! Attached Image (viewed 309 times):
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Fred Berry
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Posted: Wed Nov 11th, 2009 01:33 pm |
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Beautiful! I love the slip-rings!
Is it just the photo angle, or is there a segment missing from the commutator?
Your motor/converter is truly a wonderful machine! I am glad you saved its life!
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Russ Huber
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Posted: Wed Nov 11th, 2009 02:46 pm |
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| Thanks Fred, when I first laid eyes on this contraption the first thing that came to mind was...that is one weird looking motor. Well, turns out it is more than a motor. I have a few more things to do and then it's time to see if it will walk the walk. By the way...my information on the finished armature picture is BS. I tried to get Randy going, I soldered the short wires to the first ring...the longer to the outside ring.:) Soldering the first ring was fun as there is no support for the ring to hold it in place. A hose clamp would of nice...but naturally I didn't have one that size handy. I found a way. I then put the rings on a medium cut buffer wheel, made em nice and smooth. The commutator is very healthy with minimal wear. What appears as a missing segment is a photo fart. I'll post another snap when I slap it back together. The metal epoxy putty I used to regain a front oiler worked slick. I am going to leave her scarred paint just like it was found. Remember...her true beauty is what she does from within...not from the look of her skin. Later dudes.
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Russ Huber
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Posted: Thu Nov 12th, 2009 04:45 pm |
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I finished the Bodine converter yesterday. The issue is the exposed wire leads shown in the diagram in the photo were not wired correctly. If you follow the diagram you can see the paths of the wires between the two large field windings. Top and botton are indicated.
Now for those educated in this type of motor/converter/generator, notice the open "4" wire leads. WHICH wires(by number)goes to what brush and WHICH rear bell housing terminal? It appears the wires connected between the two upper and lower field coils are factory. But...I am not sure. Someone in past messed with this generator wiring and the slip rings. Thanks!Attached Image (viewed 293 times):
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Randy Rohr
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Posted: Thu Nov 12th, 2009 05:09 pm |
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Russ,
I will need little more info from you to sort this out, but here's how its going to end up:
Both the AC and DC circuits are going to be series wired with one common output lead- say your #2 and one DC wire out- Say your #1 and one AC lead wire out- say your #3.
The wiring I am describing will allow the DC side to run as a Motor or Generator and the AC side to run as an alternator or motor respectively.
The part I can't tell you is which wires of each field winding is for AC and which is for DC. I need some ohmmeter readings for that. We should discuss that further.
Randy Rohr
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Russ Huber
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Posted: Thu Nov 12th, 2009 05:39 pm |
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Randy, aside from ohm readings. Here is the way the open wires were connected when I purchased the motor.
1 and 3 were spliced together and connected to one of the three rear bell housing terminals. 2 and 4 were spliced and connected to another of the rear bell housing terminals. The three rear terminals are insulated and are individual. There were NO wires connected to the rear brushes(riding commutator) from the field windings.
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Russ Huber
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Posted: Thu Nov 12th, 2009 05:57 pm |
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| Thanks for your input Randy. I'll work on it. I added some brass hardware to her...despite her scars she's a cutie. Last edited on Thu Nov 12th, 2009 05:58 pm by Russ Huber
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Randy Rohr
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Posted: Thu Nov 12th, 2009 06:05 pm |
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Russ,
Just a guess, but the big loop commecting the two field coils may be the ones that should go to the slip rings. Then everything is connected and could be wired right.
Use a variac to test it gently though.
Randy
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Russ Huber
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Posted: Thu Nov 12th, 2009 06:20 pm |
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Randy, in real life the big loop is smaller than that. I just swooped it around on the picture so I could write inside the loop. All the CONNECTED wires between the field windings are in the rear(commutator DC end)of the motor. Those slip ring brush terminals(front of motor) must either FEED AC OUT...or ALLOW AC fed in. Based on the wire patterns on the field coils I see no way that they fed the slip ring brushes.
Here is the deal...those open wire leads at the DC end of the motor must feed the commutator brushes.... Aaaand the rear bell housing terminals in some way. Perplexing little 36 lb. bugger ya think? Last edited on Thu Nov 12th, 2009 06:24 pm by Russ Huber
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Randy Rohr
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Posted: Thu Nov 12th, 2009 09:35 pm |
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Russ,
Only perplexing becauce we are working long distance.
I'm now certain that we need to get this thing wired like I said initially. I'm sure someone has rewired the DC to run as a motor and that's all. The four feed wires to A and C need to be split amoung the 3 available termminals as I said initially. The remaining 2-pairs of wires need to go to slip rings and brushes. These all need to be determined with a continuity meter.
How can I help? Do you want me to re-draw the circuit as it should be?
Randy Rohr
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Russ Huber
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Posted: Thu Nov 12th, 2009 10:04 pm |
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| Randy, If you without great effort... can show "US" how to wire this thing in a EASY to understand way through diagram. BY easy... I am saying... show "US" where to hook up each numbered wire on my diagram to WHAT brush and terminal. "WE" would greatly appreciate seeing you strut your electrical stuff. In return...I will wire it like you direct me and if there is no melt down I will post pictures of finished Muskmelon doin its thing. Thank you!
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Randy Rohr
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Posted: Thu Nov 12th, 2009 11:01 pm |
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Russ,
Okay here it is. But my frustration is that I can't identify which of your wires correspond to 1,2,3,4 in my diagram? (my numbers do not necessarily correspond to yours)
Randy
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Russ Huber
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Posted: Thu Nov 12th, 2009 11:13 pm |
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Randy, I want you to know that...your frustration is my frustration. I cannot find a Bodine patent for this motor/Generator to save my life. Naturally, the patent would show the wiring diagram for this...heap of copper. I have been researching the web to learn about the function of this muskmelon and its wiring. No muskmelon is going to get the best of ME! Now...I am going to our local YMCA and take a long swim. Then it is back to the Muckmelon.  Thanks Randy and never..never...say die fan brothers! 
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Randy Rohr
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Posted: Fri Nov 13th, 2009 12:19 pm |
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Russ,
Well for what its worth, I do think this could be sorted out with the circuit diagram, an ohmmeter, and a little test logic.
Good luck,
Randy rohr
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Russ Huber
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Posted: Fri Nov 13th, 2009 02:52 pm |
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Randy Rohr wrote:
Russ,
Well for what its worth, I do think this could be sorted out with the circuit diagram, an ohmmeter, and a little test logic.
Good luck,
Randy rohr
Randy, you make this sound like this FUBAR black muskmelon and I are going through a divorce, and your the electrical marriage counselor. Well...there's more than one way to skin a muskmelon Randy. Keep in mind, before I became a long term professional donut hole cutter...I worked for NASA. I would tell you more...but it is classified.
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Russ Huber
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Posted: Fri Nov 13th, 2009 04:57 pm |
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Randy, thanks again for your help. This is something that requires hands on one on one. I called a guy today at a local motor shop that's pretty good a figuring things out. He was not schooled, and learned as an apprentice. These kind of guys in many cases are very capable despite lacking a piece of paper to hang on the wall. Personally...I think this generator was driven by an opposing motor to produce AC and DC current. That's my impression. I had to modify fiber spacers for the front armature shaft as it is an uncommon diameter as opposed to the typical fan rotor shafts. the rear shaft was larger, and I found a few to fit.
The guy at the motor shop has never seen a early Bodine model. He thinks he may have a generator at home by different manufacturer of similar construction and took my phone number. Plan B is a new found local older retired electrician that will take on the challenge. One thing I know...there aren't many of these model Bodine generators out there to be had. I could'nt find Jack on the web to match this Muskmelon. I am confident the Armature is sound...that is the most important part. I was having trouble getting ohm readings that would stabilize on the field coils. The field coils don't smell like either were fried. Hopefully one of these guys can guide me to the road of success. Later.Last edited on Fri Nov 13th, 2009 04:59 pm by Russ Huber
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