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Nicholas Denney
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Posted: Thu Mar 27th, 2008 12:24 am |
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| I took a look underneath my new Lively-Aire and I was surprised to find....nothing! What's missing here? Surely Westinghouse didn't send the fans out of the factory like this! Attached Image (viewed 416 times):
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Myles Gifford
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Posted: Thu Mar 27th, 2008 12:43 am |
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| nothings mising i think yours is a cheeper model it has the same base mounting points for all the parts to make a 2 speed like mine but yours is still a nice fan Attached Image (viewed 413 times):
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Nicholas Denney
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Posted: Thu Mar 27th, 2008 12:45 am |
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| But that's just the point... mine IS a two speeder!
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Myles Gifford
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Posted: Thu Mar 27th, 2008 12:46 am |
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where is your switch at
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Nicholas Denney
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Posted: Thu Mar 27th, 2008 01:02 am |
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| It's on the side of the motor... Attached Image (viewed 415 times):
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Myles Gifford
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Posted: Thu Mar 27th, 2008 01:06 am |
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| wow i dont know then yours have a speed coil
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Nicholas Denney
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Posted: Thu Mar 27th, 2008 01:14 am |
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I'm beginning to think that someone (someone highly skilled at that) has modified my fan... You can see dirt from where there was a headwire with a grommet around it at one time and it looks like the holes for the switch and cord have been sealed up and painted over to match the original paint exactly.
As for the speed coil, there is none... both speeds are wound into the motor like a Chinese fan!
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Myles Gifford
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Posted: Thu Mar 27th, 2008 01:19 am |
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| im starting to think the same thing
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Nicholas Denney
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Posted: Thu Mar 27th, 2008 01:25 am |
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Hold on a sec! I just peeked in the gallery.... the 12LA5A there looks the same as mine - it has the switch on the side and the cord is looped out of the neck of the fan. But, is it a two speeder too??
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Myles Gifford
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Posted: Thu Mar 27th, 2008 01:33 am |
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i think yours might be a newer model of my 12LA4 which has all the stuff in the base which means yours in technogilacly advanced 
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Austin B Ko
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Posted: Thu Mar 27th, 2008 02:42 am |
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| Nicholas I have that same fan,i dont recall seeing anything under the base though. Attached Image (viewed 395 times):
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Jeff Rusnak
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Posted: Thu Mar 27th, 2008 10:13 pm |
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Hey guys believe it or not Westinghouse did actually manufacture later Livelyaire fans like the one Nicholas has pictured.I know because I owned several of them years back (long gone now, back then they were too new for me) now I collect em.Though I don't have the later ones without the base cover and missing speed coil in the pics.If you look at the bases in the pics you'll see the blanks where the power cord and switch would normally be mounted are not punched out.The motor wire went to the base and was looped around a straint relief then came back out.The motors were wired for two speeds thus the switch mounted on the motor and not the base.Even though these fans were cheapened they were the last of the good fans from Westinghouse.
It seems Westinghouse in the late 60's was cutting cost and the way to do it was to eliminate as many parts as possible and be more cost effective.Fans back then were falling in sales due to the fact alot of people were going to A/C. So those Westinghouse fans were the last of the good ones before the stamped steel avacado and white Westinghouse table fans came out around 1970.The only parts used from the Livelyaires were the blades.The motors looked like they were from the Jack Frost/Knapp Monarch line of fans.The 12's were 2 speeds and the motor was wound for that with the switch on the motor like the Livelyaires of the 60's I don't think long after that Westinghouse stopped making fans.
Hope this helps,Jeff.
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Nicholas Denney
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Posted: Fri Mar 28th, 2008 01:35 am |
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Thank You for explaining! 
It does seem odd that Westinghouse sold what would have appeared to be an incomplete fan and I don't doubt that the first people to buy them wondered the same! The least they could have done was run the cord through the base and kept the switch where it was! Hehehe... that's progress!
Last edited on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 01:37 am by Nicholas Denney
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Tom Dreesen
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Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 03:07 pm |
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OK you Lively-Aire experts, I need some help. I have the "standard" 2 speed version. When I got it several months ago, the blade would hardly turn by hand. I remember squirting oil most everywhere and then it sat on a shelf until now. The blade now turns fairly freely, and the fan does run, albiet more slowly than I think it should and it doesn't want to oscillate. I don't see an oil hole, nor is it clear how to break it down. I want to spiff it up and give it to my daughter (fits her decor). Where to start???
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Myles Gifford
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Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 03:51 pm |
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| Tom on the bottem to take the cover of the motor off there should be 4 flat ebge screws to up front 2 close to the rear take those out you motor should come apart and youll also be able to take the cage apart but it is a pain to get back togeathe as nicholas stated in a topic i made
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Keith Cordt
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Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 04:43 pm |
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Does your lively aire have the ridges/vents on top of the motor? (I thought they all did-but I dunno)
If so, find a flashlight.....
At least on the 2 I have, there are oil holes hidden in the ridges.
Actually, the front oil hole is pretty easy to see....but the back one is hidden deep down in a well in the center ridge.
I didn't know this for a long time-and found them by accident!
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Tom Dreesen
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Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 05:01 pm |
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Yep, I see them now. Thanks
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Jeremy Pruitt
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Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 09:29 pm |
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I have one of these too. It has the original baby blue paint, baby blue cord, and blue "see-thru" plastic blades. It runs great and I use it everyday in the living room!
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John Fengel
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Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 11:03 pm |
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| I "cleaned" up one about a year ago. They are a bear to assemble but this one runs very cool and very quiet. Attached Image (viewed 218 times):
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Jeremy Pruitt
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Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 11:08 pm |
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WOW! The red one looks awesome!! Did you have to tape of each individual ridge not to get red paint on them? You are right though, they are headache to reassemble.
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Erik Bakken
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Posted: Sun Jul 20th, 2008 01:43 am |
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GREAT JOB ON THE RED ONE!!!! That looks really nice in red! 
My 10 LA has the cord going into the hole, through a strain relief clip, and back out as mentioned earlier. Must have been put there to keep the cord from getting ripped out of the motor.
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Tom Dreesen
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Posted: Sun Jul 20th, 2008 01:53 am |
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Nice. That blade is original? I thought they all had the plastic blades, esp with the side switch. Here is the one I am working on. Clearly a 2 speed, but only working on what must be low speed. Bad coil? Bad switch? No, I don't have testing equipment.
Also, it is not coming apart after removing the screws.
Attached Image (viewed 201 times):
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John Fengel
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Posted: Sun Jul 20th, 2008 02:13 am |
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Did you have to tape of each individual ridge not to get red paint on them?
No, I polished them before painting. Then I primed it and removed the primer, and polished the ribs again. After the final color coats were applied, I removed the paint and polished again.
The blade is original, just polished. I had a couple with the plastic blades that I used for parts. I removed the badge from the cage which was chromed and in decent shape.
John
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Russ Huber
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Posted: Sun Jul 20th, 2008 02:27 am |
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Tom Dreesen wrote: Nice. That blade is original? I thought they all had the plastic blades, esp with the side switch. Here is the one I am working on. Clearly a 2 speed, but only working on what must be low speed. Bad coil? Bad switch? No, I don't have testing equipment.
Also, it is not coming apart after removing the screws.
Tom, The funky plastic blade was a 50s patent. The man....Gustav Koch. He had to be a contract engineer for Westinghouse. He had fan patents from the 30s on down into the 50s...early 60s? He was the man behind the Livelyaire motor. The metal blade design was tail end of WW11 ...then came the plastic in the late 40s- 50s? I have a number of these fans in storage....but yet...have not opened one up...yet. Gustav designed the later low budget and possibly the better earlier motor in the mobileaires. I think he designed the d amn mobileaire as well. Those line of mobile wheely fans were HOT moving into the 50s as Emerson had their version(Caryl Lindberg) as well amoungst other fan manufacturers. Koch's patents show pedestals and poweraire fans... yada yada yada. Look into him.
http://www.google.com/patents?id=oOBHAAAAEBAJ&dq=2603674
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Nicholas Denney
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Posted: Sun Jul 20th, 2008 02:31 am |
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Tom Dreesen wrote: Nice. That blade is original? I thought they all had the plastic blades, esp with the side switch. Here is the one I am working on. Clearly a 2 speed, but only working on what must be low speed. Bad coil? Bad switch? No, I don't have testing equipment.
Also, it is not coming apart after removing the screws.
There are even more variations of this fan - another has a polished metal blade with a big, flat red button in the middle and yet another had the same blade, except it was painted tan.
That is strange that yours isn't coming apart - mine usually open with a POP! when all the screws are removed. There should be four, 2 in front, 2 in back.
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Stan Adams
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Posted: Sun Jul 20th, 2008 02:31 am |
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| Wow, that is fine John! I have never seen the blade that shiny either. That is SWEET!
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Russ Huber
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Posted: Sun Jul 20th, 2008 02:34 am |
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Sorry John! that is a beauty! I remember and ebay Livelyaire fire engine red with the "Coca-Cola" label on her motor housing. I think it sold for $1,000,000 dollars. Ya...I remember it well. 
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Tom Dreesen
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Posted: Sun Jul 20th, 2008 02:03 pm |
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There were 2 in the front, the 2 in the back were already gone.
She won't open up. I have done some judicious tapping and pounding and nothing.
Can't see where to get a pry bar between the halves. May have to resort to the Goodrich "Thor's hammer".
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Nicholas Denney
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Posted: Sun Jul 20th, 2008 05:47 pm |
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Tom Dreesen wrote: There were 2 in the front, the 2 in the back were already gone.
She won't open up. I have done some judicious tapping and pounding and nothing.
Can't see where to get a pry bar between the halves. May have to resort to the Goodrich "Thor's hammer".
If you've actually seen two empty screw holes in the back then they must be missing but otherwise, I'd say you're missing something - without the two rear screws, the spring pushing against the gearbox would have caused a visible gap between the halves of the motor - sounds like someone could have glued the cover back on.....
Photo: Rear housing screws removed - front screws are still fully tightened down
Attached Image (viewed 145 times):
 Last edited on Sun Jul 20th, 2008 06:04 pm by Nicholas Denney
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Tom Dreesen
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Posted: Sun Jul 20th, 2008 09:05 pm |
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Well, once I got the dirt out of the holes, they were there  .
She's open, and filthy, and has stripped threads off the shaft. That is part of the entire shaft (see arrow), correct? She will be a non-oscillator I guess.
Attached Image (viewed 136 times):
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Nicholas Denney
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Posted: Sun Jul 20th, 2008 09:35 pm |
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Tom Dreesen wrote: Well, once I got the dirt out of the holes, they were there .
She's open, and filthy, and has stripped threads off the shaft. That is part of the entire shaft (see arrow), correct? She will be a non-oscillator I guess.
I don't see what you mean by stripped threads but the rotor/shaft is one whole piece. As you may have discovered, everything simply lifts out - the bearings, stator, rotor etc. This is why the fan is so  difficult to put back together, as you will have to hold the everything in the motor in place while the fan is upside down, using your free hand to try and put the screws back in. Alternatively, you could just wrap the motor with duct tape while you struggle to put the screws back in.
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Tom Dreesen
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Posted: Sun Jul 20th, 2008 09:44 pm |
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Stripped just enough that when it gets to the reversing position, it doesn't engage. A fine example of "not worth messing with". The amount of work needed to bring back a cheapie many times is just the same as "old iron". I am going to wire the switch to bypass the "coil" so at least it will run at full speed.
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Nicholas Denney
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Posted: Sun Jul 20th, 2008 10:08 pm |
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Tom Dreesen wrote: Stripped just enough that when it gets to the reversing position, it doesn't engage. A fine example of "not worth messing with". The amount of work needed to bring back a cheapie many times is just the same as "old iron". I am going to wire the switch to bypass the "coil" so at least it will run at full speed.
"Reversing position"?? It's extremely unlikely that the shaft itself is stripped because the gear running off of it is plastic!! You'd probably find a cheap plastic gear to replace it for $1 or less.
Here's mine.... so clean and pretty!
Attached Image (viewed 128 times):
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Myles Gifford
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Posted: Sun Jul 20th, 2008 10:15 pm |
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| makes me want to take mine apart and join the club of takeing the westy apart
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Tom Dreesen
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Posted: Sun Jul 20th, 2008 10:18 pm |
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I see, OK it's the second gear. Anybody have an extra?
Last edited on Sun Jul 20th, 2008 10:21 pm by Tom Dreesen
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Jeff Rusnak
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Posted: Mon Jul 21st, 2008 02:45 pm |
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Hey Guys,Any of you coming to fan Fair ?? I'll be there and it's alot easier to show you in person rather than a long string of posts on the workings of the Westinghouse livelyaire's.I can't bring one along as I'm flying out and due to airport security I think it would be awash.Any way I would be glad to give a session on these fans as they seem to be a mystery to everyone.If some of you that are driving to Fan Fair bring a livelyaire along (10" or 12") we'll have some fan fun.
I am by no means an expert, nor am I a guru,but I have worked on many Livelyaires over the years and have seen alot of them.I currently have about 50 Livelyaires in my fan collection in various condtions from mint to very sad condtion.They are very under apprecieated and overlooked fans but never the less good fans and lend themselves easily to customtmizing.
A short history.The earliest Livelyaires 10"came out about 1940,(or there abouts) aluminum blade,foil badge,tag info on the oscillating arm.The colors were green (yes I said green the very early ones were green) then a blue/grayish color,and a beige/ivory color.Then came the mauve colored Livelyaires with the silver color guards and aluminum blade about 1950.Then the beige plastic (phelonic) blade as Westinghouse refers to it came out in 1954.the fan was the mauve color,chrome guard,burgundy color badge with the info,and the oscillator arm still had info on it.Then about 1957 Westinghouse made a baby blue Livelyaire with a chrome guard with gold foil badge,and a translucent blue blade (the nicest Livelyaire color combo if you ask me).Then the last livelyaires about 1964 were aqua in color with a white guard,with a grey foil badge,no switch just plug in.The 12"s were pretty much the same being a blue/grayish color on the earliest.Then the beige/ivory color with maroon badge and center cap on an aluminum blade.Then the mauve color with tan metal blade,chrome guard,maroon foil badge.Then the mauve color with the plastic beige blade,chrome guard.Then the baby blue with translucent blue blade,chrome guard with gold foil badge.Then the mauve color with a white guards were about the last 12"s I can recall.The 12"s all had the two speed switch on the base till about 1960,then I think the switch was on the motor from that point on.Yes the motor was still a two speed.
To answer a few quick questions posted in this string.
(1) Yes the livelyaires can be lubricated,the oil holes are in the center ribs on top.one just behind the front bearing,one about mid way back they have always been there.
(2) there are four screws under the motor that hold the motor halves together.Remove them completly and the halves should come apart.Tapping with a plastic mallet (AH GENTLY !!)might help.Old hardened grease sometimes keeps it from opening easily.Just be sure to remember where the parts go back,otherwise YES IT CAN BE A BIG PAIN GETTING BACK TOGETHER !!
(3) The oscillating gears are a fibre material.If you can find a donor fan with good ones it's an easy swap.
(4) Yes Westinghouse did make the 12" without any parts in the base.I think it was a way to cut cost and still have a competive fan without sacrificing performance ??
(5) Once your Livelyaire is all cleaned,lubed,fixed,and back together you'll have a nice smooth running quiet fan  Hope I've helped answer some of your questions !!! Jeff.
Last edited on Mon Jul 21st, 2008 03:11 pm by Jeff Rusnak
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Ron Powell
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Posted: Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 12:45 am |
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You sure the gear teeth arent just clogged up with muddy grease? I'd clean everything up first, then give it a try and see what happens. I've had em like this and got them working just by cleaning them up.
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Nicholas Denney
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Posted: Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 12:58 am |
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Jeff Rusnak wrote: (5) Once your Livelyaire is all cleaned,lubed,fixed,and back together you'll have a nice smooth running quiet fan Hope I've helped answer some of your questions !!! Jeff.
Ever since I discovered how well fans will run when you wax their bearings, I've done it to all of my fans and it has noticeably increased their operating performance and decreased their operating noise. 
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William Schaub
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Posted: Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 01:34 am |
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Nicholas Denney wrote: Jeff Rusnak wrote: (5) Once your Livelyaire is all cleaned,lubed,fixed,and back together you'll have a nice smooth running quiet fan Hope I've helped answer some of your questions !!! Jeff.
Ever since I discovered how well fans will run when you wax their bearings, I've done it to all of my fans and it has noticeably increased their operating performance and decreased their operating noise.
How exactly do you wax the bearings? what type of wax do you use and how do you apply it? I woudl think the wax would come off and clog the bearings.
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Nicholas Denney
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Posted: Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 02:17 am |
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Sigh...... I new I shoulda' kept this secret!
Anyway, there isn't much to it - use a Q-tip to swab some wax (I use Meguiar's Cleaner Wax) into the bearing, and then find something to polish it out with. I like to use a screwdriver covered with a rag to stick into the bearing and wipe it out. You'd be surprised how much dirt you can get out of some bearings! When the bearings are clean, they will LOOK clean - I've gotten bearings polished to the point where they were shinier than the brass blades on a fan! I have experimentally run fans "dry" after giving the bearings the cleanout - without a drop of oil to lubricate them, and they have run as good, if not better than when they were actually oiled!
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