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Richard Boothroyd
AFCA Member
| Joined: | Tue Apr 8th, 2008 |
| Location: | United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 301 |
| Favorite Fan: | Verity's Lite Orbital |
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Posted: Mon Jan 19th, 2009 09:58 pm |
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| I agree with Steve on this in that he operational current once running can be very low but am I not correct that large heavy duty motors used to require a dual current starting system - you get the motor running on reduced setting and then switch to full setting. This scan from the 1908 Veritys catalogue might help? Attachment: Veritys 1908 Page 108 DC Starter Switch.pdf (Downloaded 64 times)
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Richard Boothroyd
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| Location: | United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 301 |
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Posted: Mon Jan 19th, 2009 10:08 pm |
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| Sorry if you could not read that picture - here it is as a jpg file. Attachment: Veritys 1908 Page 108 DC Starter Switch.pdf (Downloaded 61 times)
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Pete Moulds
AFCA Member
| Joined: | Sat Feb 25th, 2006 |
| Location: | Ma'adi, Cairo, Egypt |
| Posts: | 311 |
| Favorite Fan: | Veritys Aston Orbital |
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Posted: Sun Jan 25th, 2009 08:43 am |
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Thanks guys for the excellent advice so far but another request.
For the complete removal of doubt about exploding extension cords; I produce below a picture of the said cord.
The copper wire has blown straight out of the insulation in at last three places.
Moving forward, I bought a modern wall switch for an AC fan and planned to put it into a circuit leading the now hopefully controlled current into the AC side of the bridge rectifier.
However the best quality switch I can find is Chinese made (almost everything for sale in Egypt is perforce the cheapest obtainable).
There is a resistance coil in the new switch with a four position switch feeding off various percentages of the resistance coils. This switch has really thin and weedy-looking wires leading into each position and I fear greatly causing another explosion.
Please can someone give me some electrical advice how to overcome this problem?
I do have the antique Marelli fan switch but I do not know (a) if it is DC (no markings) and (b) whether it is electrically sound (i.e. no breaks in the coil).
Richard in private telephone conversations suggested some kind of shunt to take the load prior to increasing the power from a multi-position switch.
Elect-idiot signing off and humbly requesting advice before plunging a large percentage of the 18 million inhabitants of Cairo into darkness.
Attached Image (viewed 356 times):
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Randy Rohr
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| Joined: | Sun Jun 8th, 2008 |
| Location: | Clifton, Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 371 |
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Posted: Sun Jan 25th, 2009 10:44 am |
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Peter,
I agree with Steve- the fan should draw less than an amp or two, perhaps double that on start up. One spec I haven't heard mentioned is the voltage the rating for the bridge. A 220 v ac mains will have a peak voltage of over 300- more if poorly regulated. You should use a 400 v Bridge rectifier for your application- 6oo v to be safe.
Over-voltage could blow the bridge rectifier without your knowing and short the supply (extension cord) as appears to have happened.
Perhaps one of us could send you a 600v Bridge- I have several?
Regards,
Randy Rohr
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Randy Rohr
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| Location: | Clifton, Virginia USA |
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Posted: Sun Jan 25th, 2009 01:22 pm |
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Peter,
I like the look of this fan. Perhaps I could buy one from you. I'd like to see a pic of the Brush Type to help me decide. What might you want for one?
Randy Rohr, AFCA Member
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Pete Moulds
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| Joined: | Sat Feb 25th, 2006 |
| Location: | Ma'adi, Cairo, Egypt |
| Posts: | 311 |
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Posted: Tue Jan 27th, 2009 06:43 am |
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Dear Randy
This is the only example I have ever seen in 10 years here. If I find another I can buy it for you. I paid 600 LE (Egyptian pounds) = $109.
Old ceiling fans seem rarther rare here which honestly puzzles me.
I have seen another early ceiling fan by Veritys...it is a "Karachi" model. it has 3 very bent but straightenable alumin(i)um blades.
There are two problems (1) it is not nearly so beautifully decorated; rather a smooth rounded blob of cast iron and (2) it is a big blob and probably weighs over 50 kg (110 lbs).
I will send brochure pictures of this fan from the original Veritys catalogue. I cannot recall but I think the fan comes from the 1920. This is in the Souk Gomaa (Friday market) and will be cheap but expensive to ship to the US.
Thanks for your advice BTW. Warm regards
Peter
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Randy Rohr
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Posted: Tue Jan 27th, 2009 10:14 am |
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Peter,
I wasn't clear in my note to you, sorry. I was interested in the EMI table fan you showed earlier in this thread.
Thanks,
Randy Rohr
PS: can we send you a 600v Bridge Rectifier?
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Peter Chester
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Posted: Tue Mar 10th, 2009 03:14 pm |
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hey Pete,
It has suddenly occured to me that you should use a step-down transformer along with the bridge rectifier.............
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Pete Moulds
AFCA Member
| Joined: | Sat Feb 25th, 2006 |
| Location: | Ma'adi, Cairo, Egypt |
| Posts: | 311 |
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Posted: Wed Mar 11th, 2009 04:37 pm |
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Hi Peter
Why a step down transformer? From 220 to 200? I somehow doubt that the local electric company ever achieves the full 220 volts? But I will check the voltage. Maybe I should try a rheostat and step up the voltage gradually?
I have yet to get back down town to pick-up a 600 volt bridge rectifier. It is very kind of people to offer to send me one from the US but I have to repeat that there is a special place in he*l, right next to the furnace, reserved for Egyptian customs officials. Clearing anything is a complete pain.
Currently I am still trying to clear a personal shipment of some furniture from the US which arrived in Alexandria on the 26th. February. Three weeks to come by ship from US and three weeks to clear the ***** customs.
I took some pictures of the Veritys 'Karachi' CF in the souk last Friday. It is a shame I'm not into CF and that they are so darned heavy.
Attached Image (viewed 283 times):
 Last edited on Wed Mar 11th, 2009 04:44 pm by Pete Moulds
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Joe Bourn
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| Location: | Austin, Texas USA |
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Posted: Wed Mar 11th, 2009 05:27 pm |
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Pete Moulds wrote: I took some pictures of the Veritys 'Karachi' CF in the souk last Friday.
For those like me who had never heard of one...............
souk
noun
an open-air market in an Arabian city
Last edited on Wed Mar 11th, 2009 05:28 pm by Joe Bourn
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Peter Chester
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Posted: Thu Mar 26th, 2009 07:50 am |
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Hey Pete,
Before you think of making your fan work when connected to an A.C source, first confirm whether it is in working condition or not. connect your fan to a battery eliminator or a car-battery or your computer-UPS.
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Pete Moulds
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| Joined: | Sat Feb 25th, 2006 |
| Location: | Ma'adi, Cairo, Egypt |
| Posts: | 311 |
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Posted: Thu Mar 26th, 2009 03:17 pm |
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Peter
Thanks for the heads-up but I have some great news. I went back into deepest Bab El Louk (downtown Cairo) and bought a 600 volt bridge rectifier. Then bought a nice German-made voltage regulator from the same electronic enthusiast's shop.
The charming young lady shop assistant wired the now restored EMI ceiling fan (see beginning of this thread) up to the mains in the shop via the regulator and the rectifier.
Two seconds later there was no explosion just a beautifully rotating fan. She is working perfecty but of course will be smoother when the oil baths are filled and the bearings are running submerged in oil rather than just oil wet.
Hope to suspend the fan this weekend and have now ordered some blades to be made for it here in Ma'adi. I will post pictures soon. BTW the fan is painted a cream colour.
I want to take this chance to send a special thank you to AFCA members for all of the good advice to this newbie CF collector.
Last edited on Thu Mar 26th, 2009 03:18 pm by Pete Moulds
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Evan Atkinson
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| Location: | Los Angeles, California USA |
| Posts: | 988 |
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Posted: Thu Mar 26th, 2009 06:44 pm |
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| Can't wait to see it Pete! Sounds beautiful.
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Richard Boothroyd
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| Joined: | Tue Apr 8th, 2008 |
| Location: | United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 301 |
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Posted: Fri Mar 27th, 2009 03:47 am |
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Pete - Maybe I have a spurious answer for your problem - well for one of them anyway!!
You mentioned a Chinese manuafactured extension cord. As anyone knows - in Mandarin (the Chinese mainland language) - the pictogram for fan extension cord and detonation chord and very similar. Maybe a warehouseman somewhere in China made a small mistake.
Maybe someone sent you the wrong material by mistake and your cord "detonated" at 25,000 feet per second?
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Peter Chester
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Posted: Fri Mar 27th, 2009 08:54 am |
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Pete Moulds wrote: Peter
The charming young lady shop assistant wired the now restored EMI ceiling fan (see beginning of this thread) up to the mains in the shop via the regulator and the rectifier.
What "beginning of this thread"? what are u talking about?Last edited on Fri Mar 27th, 2009 09:08 am by Peter Chester
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Pete Moulds
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Posted: Fri Mar 27th, 2009 09:49 am |
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Peter
This rather lengthy series of messages and discussions or 'thread' started with me posting a picture of an antique ceiling fan and asking members if they could guess when and where it was made. I suspect many of them like quizzes as much as I do.
I knew the location of manufacture but didn't know what year. The fan was made in the Netherlands by the EMI company and AFCA experts dated it to 1905 to 1915.
Richard
Thank you for the heads-up on Mandarin translation problems. If the theory is correct then their explosive detonator cord is downright dangerous as it exploded at three points simultaneously. Not a good advert for explosive safety.
As for my 'other' problems to which you obliquely referred; I understand that plastic surgery in Cairo is inexpensive and quite good really :-)
Last edited on Fri Mar 27th, 2009 10:05 am by Pete Moulds
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Peter Chester
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Posted: Sun Apr 12th, 2009 02:25 pm |
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| So what are the developments lately?
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Peter Chester
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Posted: Sun Aug 30th, 2009 01:47 pm |
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| Hey pete whats up ? what has become of that EMI ? why no reply yet ? have you got rid of the fan ?
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Pete Moulds
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Posted: Wed Sep 2nd, 2009 06:01 am |
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Hi Peter
No, the fan is restored and hanging from the ceiling in my living room. It is painted an ivory colour.
I solved the DC issue and have a wall mounted rectifier and rheostat, so it does run.
I need to do two more things before posting pictures.
Firstly, have blades made; my local chippie is not going to do a good enough cutting job I suspect so I am quietly looking for a better carpenter.
Secondly the ceiling hook is strong enough but the hanger needs a bushing cutting to stabilise the fan motor to stop possible rotation of the whole fan by motor torque.
I would appreciate advice from CF afficianados as to whether the bushings should be metal (brass) or hard rubber. I thought of cutting two brass cone bushings and tighten them in position using the horizontal hanging bolt which is a chunky 2cm diameter.
Then all I have to do is fill the oil reservoirs, fit the blades and then pray they are balanced.
Then of course post photographs on AFCA.
The reason I haven't done this work yet is because I am restoring the whole flat including removing walls and furnishing it too. Been rather occupied here.
Warm regards
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Tom Dreesen
AFCA Member
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Posted: Wed Sep 2nd, 2009 01:54 pm |
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Pete,
Porcelain or hard rubber were what came with American fans. I don't see why brass won't work.
As far as the blade balancing, the best is to get them as best you can the same weight to the gram BEFORE mounting them.
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Peter Chester
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Posted: Thu Sep 3rd, 2009 01:28 pm |
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So thats that. well peter i think hard rubber bushings are better.
As for the blade balancing thing, i suggest that you do it yourself, because carpenters are not trained to do this stuff.
Tom
what fans are those in the pic ?
Last edited on Thu Sep 3rd, 2009 01:29 pm by Peter Chester
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Tom Dreesen
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Posted: Thu Sep 3rd, 2009 02:08 pm |
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They are Hunters, R-52 and H-52 (and sold)
http://afca.mywowbb.com/forum2/9603.html
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