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Ralph Bliss
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Posted: Mon Jun 1st, 2009 12:29 pm |
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| Can someone tell me the proper rouge to use for buffing brass blades and parts? I've looked at a few websites about buffing but most of the info is about chrome and aluminum. I've heard of a 2 or 3 step process. Also, where can I find a good supplier with the best prices? Thanks! Last edited on Mon Jun 1st, 2009 12:29 pm by Ralph Bliss
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Ron Powell
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Posted: Mon Jun 1st, 2009 12:49 pm |
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Ralph, As I remember there use to be a RED and a GREY only one for light and heavy polishing but, now there are many grades depending on the brand (or maybe I was sheltered then). I pick mine up at Lowe's I use a #5 rouge out of 1-5 grades it being for the finest of polishing and a #4 for when you get that real badly tarnished scratched piece just to start out with and then finish with a #5. And you should use two different buffing wheels, one for each grade of rouge so when doing your final high gloss polishing you don't get it scratched by the cutting rouge.I don't recall the brand but they only carry one at mine.
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Erich Martin
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Posted: Mon Jun 1st, 2009 02:10 pm |
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| I always start on semi rough brass with stainless steel rouge, than go to fine polishing to finish. The stainless cuts really well and ssometimes the end result needs no finishing. My 2c. Last edited on Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 02:55 am by Erich Martin
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Steve Sherwood
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Posted: Mon Jun 1st, 2009 09:54 pm |
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Depending on how scratched the blades are, this would determine which type of rouge to start with. I usually start with the black, then brown(red), then white. You can finish with the green if you want but after the white it usually has a mirror finish. Also the speed of you buffer can have a lot to due with how long it takes to buff the blades.
Steve
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Richard Larson
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Posted: Mon Jun 1st, 2009 10:12 pm |
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| I use pretty much the same strategy as Steve. I've also found the power of the buffer can make a big difference. I used to use an old 1/2hp grinder converted to a buffer and it was very easy to bog that thing down fast. A while back I picked up a JET 1hp true buffer (has the extended shafts) and it's much harder to bog that one down. I do still actually use the grinder - I have the white and green on that one since the final stages do not really need quite so much pressure and effort as the initial cut/cleaning stages. Last edited on Mon Jun 1st, 2009 10:14 pm by Richard Larson
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Ralph Bliss
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Posted: Mon Jun 1st, 2009 11:55 pm |
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I just picked up a buffer today (Harbor Freight, great prices) My question is how long should it take to shine up a blade? I spent about 20 minutes on about a 4 inch section and it still has speckles all over it. Should I just be paitent and work it longer or am I doing something wrong? I started with gray, it was the second most agressive they had at the store. Should I try to find black? I just expected it to go a little faster, I did my FWEW blade by hand with compound and polish and it was almost as fast.
Attached Image (viewed 137 times):
 Last edited on Mon Jun 1st, 2009 11:57 pm by Ralph Bliss
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Richard Larson
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Posted: Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 12:01 am |
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Yeah for a very rough one like that you will need a cutting compound. Probably the black. It also might have a clear coat on in which case you will either need to burn through that first or remove that first with a chemical stripper. Buffing with a bench buffer still takes a lot of time and effort though. You will want gloves on as well because if you are doing it right, that blade will get pretty hot. Right amount of rouge, very very firm solid grip and push it into a wheel pretty firmly. Of course being VERY careful of any leading edges that might grab and rip the blade out of your hands.
Also need to have the right buffs - A spiral sewn silsa for the cutting and initial cleaning and a softer buff for the finishing work.
Last edited on Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 12:02 am by Richard Larson
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Paul Foster
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Posted: Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 12:04 am |
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Ralph, Something does not sound right. A few questions--Did you remove the clear lacquer/enamel coating on the blade before you began polishing? Did you load up the wheel with compound? How much pressure are you using blade to wheel?
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Ralph Bliss
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Posted: Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 12:16 am |
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| Yes, the lacquer has been removed. I used the compound according the the instructions on the package which said to not use to much. As far as pressure, the blade is getting quite hot so I think I'm using enough pressure. Last edited on Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 12:20 am by Ralph Bliss
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Steve Sherwood
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Posted: Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 12:22 am |
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Check out the guys. They have every thing you will need. They have lots of information about buffing.
http://www.caswellplating.com/buffs/buffman.htm
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Ralph Bliss
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Posted: Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 12:30 am |
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| Steve, I spent some time on their site this morning reading and trying to learn, thats why I knew something wasn't right. I'm starting to think the compound I have is weak. That is a very informative site by the way. Last edited on Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 12:31 am by Ralph Bliss
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Paul Foster
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Posted: Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 12:33 am |
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Ralph Bliss wrote: Yes, the lacquer has been removed. I used the compound according the the instructions on the package which said to not use to much. As far as pressure, the blade is getting quite hot so I think I'm using enough pressure.
Ralph, Assuming you have the right buffing wheels, it sounds like you did not use enough buffing compound. On a new wheel, you will need to intially load the wheel with a good coating of compound. The stick compound actually melts from the friction and transfers to your buffing wheel. On each blade, I will usually hit the wheel 5 or 6 more times with a quick swipe of the compound. The compound is what really does the work. Without sufficient compound, you will not make much progress.
Also, as the old compound builds up on your wheel, you will need to periodically clean it with a wheel rake. Most polishing supply houses will stock these.
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Erich Martin
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Posted: Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 03:13 am |
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| On a blade that ugly, you need to really clean it good with blue lysol and 0000 grade steel wool. My buddy Fatima does my brass prep, that is what she uses and it is amazing. On bad blades I will use fine scotchbrite by hand in the lengthwise direction, that way you get no swirls. Then really jam the rouge into the spinning , HARD cotton wheel till it pelts you with excess rouge, then put the blade against the wheel and have a ball!. Just beware catching an edge while polishing, I have sent alot of parts onto a shallow orbit when the wheel catches an edge!!
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Dean Robbins
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Posted: Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 03:31 am |
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Ralph,
You might want to also look at : http://www.jamesgmorrisco.com. They are located in Searcy,AR so some of the members from that area may already be using them and could better advise you. I have only used them once, but they were very helpful and I thought their prices to be fair.
Good luck,
Dean
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Ralph Bliss
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Posted: Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 10:23 am |
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is the blue lysol you refer to the same as what is mentioned in the How To page on cleaning? On the How To page it says 'White Bottle', is it now sold in a blue bottle?
I loaded up the wheel with much more compound and its doing a little better now, but I think I need to get some black. I have another blade to do and it's even more ugly.
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Steve Sherwood
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Posted: Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 12:10 pm |
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What size is the buffer motor and what is the RPM?Some of those Harbor Freight buffers are not very powerful.
Steve
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Ralph Bliss
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Posted: Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 12:42 pm |
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its 6" - 1/2 hp - 3600 rpm. For only $39, how could I not give it a try!
And about the blue bottle lysol, is it the same as the white bottle mentioned on the 'How To' page, and does it really work well??
Last edited on Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 01:09 pm by Ralph Bliss
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Erich Martin
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Posted: Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 01:13 pm |
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| I am using an old grinder at work and it works just fine. Do not be afraid to push that blade into the rotating wheel with a little force, don't try to polish it like a car. Are you using a hard cotton wheel or one of those "fluffy" wheels?, the soft ones are only good for final polishing, also, clean a back side portion with some soft scotchbrite and then polish that area, I get my best results that way.
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Richard Larson
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Posted: Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 01:14 pm |
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| In the long run you will probably want o get something a little bigger. You can get away with putting 8" buffs on that but it will bog down pretty easy as my first port above mentioned. What works good for me is to do pretty hard fast pushes of the blade onto the wheel - the motor bogs down pretty fast, pull back for it to get back up to speed, repeat many many times. With a heavy duty machine with larger wheels you will not have to push it quite so hard to get the same amount of material off but they cost. A true heavy duty buffer will cost you a bundle, a Baldor, Jet, or other higher end brand 1+ hp will run you a couple hundred minimum and if you want to get a decent stand with it those will cost another hundred.
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Ralph Bliss
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Posted: Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 01:24 pm |
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| I'm using a spiral sewn silsa wheel. I picked up some black this morning, its much better. I may end up getting a second buffer, 1 hp, 8", at some point but for now, this little cheapy will do. It does makes sense to use a stronger machine to start, then the smaller to finish.
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Richard Larson
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Posted: Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 01:34 pm |
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| Also the tidy bown cleaner trick does work great and will remove the worst of the grime and tarnish but you do have to be careful. If you let it stay on brass too long it will dissolve some of the metals and leave the brass looking pink. If that happens you can still buff it back out but it's going to be nearly as much work. On the bottle color - I think they have a blue bottle version and a green bottle version - the blue labeled bottle is the original fomula with acid in it - thats the one you want. Just do the acid cleaning with a hose handy and rinse it often - I do this and scrub it with 0000 steel wool. Like I said though - rinse it promptly - you dont want the tidy bowl on the brass too long. Last edited on Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 01:36 pm by Richard Larson
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John Fengel
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Posted: Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 03:46 pm |
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I'm not sure of other areas but around here, I can't find Tidy Bowl Toilet Cleaner anymore. If you look at the ingredients on other brands of toilet bowl cleaner, what you want is some Hydrochloric Acid. I try to get one with the highest concentration of acid. Pour some in a small container and dilute it with water. This will slow down the process but it will also minimize the brass turning pink. I use 0000 steel wool and found it takes very little pressure to remove the tarnish. I normally do my blades in the kitchen sink when the wife isn't around. She doesn't care for my process in "her" sink. When I need to clean a blade, I encourage her to go shopping which always seems to cost me more than the blade is worth.
John
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Steve Sherwood
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Posted: Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 08:29 pm |
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Here is what I use. It is a 1hp Grizzly with 12" arms. I use 10" wheels, sometimes smaller ones. You have to use a death grip on the blades, because if you catch an edge the blades will fly out of you hands.
Steve
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Ralph Bliss
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Posted: Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 10:58 am |
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| Thats a nice machine. I'm certain that something along those lines is in my future. The longer arms make a big difference. What about stacking 2 or more wheels on the arbor? I know I've seen it done, I dont think it would work well on my wimpy little machine but what about on a bigger, stronger buffer?
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Steve Sherwood
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Posted: Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 12:14 pm |
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You can easily put 2 buffs on each side. I just use one most of the time. I would not want one any bigger than this one. It has more than enough power and speed.
Steve
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