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Don Eckerson
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Posted: Mon Jun 8th, 2009 02:15 am |
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Here we go again . I need your assistance in order to update our survey.
DATA REQUESTED (GE "Pancake" Desk Fan):
1. YEAR (1894 - 1908...post a photo if not known...we'll figure it out)
2. SIZE (10", 12", 14" or 16")
3. FRAME (Swivel Frame or Swivel-Trunnion Frame)
4. CURRENT (AC or DC)
5. SERIAL NUMBER
PROCEDURE:
By year-end I would like to update THE 1894-1929 GENERAL ELECTRIC DESK FAN SURVEY which we now post in our AFCA INFO SECTION. Input regarding your fans can be provided via a tack-on to this forum message. That way the message will be kept fresh and "nudge" others to participate. In addition to updating the survey, I will provide each participant with a "WHO HAS 'EM" listing. If you prefer to keep your collection private, then e-mail me directly and I will keep your name anonymous (eckerson89@aol.com).
BACKGROUND:
The GE serial numbers have been helpful in establishing the GE timeline. Research revealed a few shortcomings, i.e. GE's batch number system which left some numbers unused, first-in/last-out on motors when inventory levels were high, tag switching, you-name-it.
When the serial number survey was taken in the late 90's, I took liberty NOT to alter the fine work done in the early 90's by Prewitt Scripps and Lawrence Erickson. I have retraced their steps through the archives at GE's Hall of History and reviewed all their files, which I keep secured for AFCA. Without the current popularity of Ebay, they were able to "range" the GE serial numbers with amazing accuracy. Their intention was not to be pinpoint accurate since the numbers all end in "000". I often repeat this message to "Pancake" collectors who question the serial number range by year.
Perhaps now is the time to upgrade the Scripps/Erickson "Pancake" serial number data. As many know, GE continued serial numbers through the "Small Motor Yoke" and "Two-Star" days. These post-1908 numbers are interesting too, but I suggest we concentrate this effort on upgrading only the "Pancake" numbers, i.e. 1894-1908.
Thx, Don
P.S. Hey, it's time to dust-off your collection...so please help.
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Steve Stephens
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Posted: Mon Jun 8th, 2009 02:44 am |
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HI Don, I'm happy to provide my pancake info in the hope that you can get your excellent survey updated. When you get to the later brass GEs let me know and I can provide some date for them.
Don, what meaning does the SPEC NO. have on pancakes when used from c.1900-02?
Steve
T=trunion S=stick mount *no longer own The following is listed in order of serial number. Note that some earlier year model fans seem to have been made in years later than their model year.
Year size frame...Type...Form...Volts...Freq.....Ser. No….Spec…Last pat. date
1898 10” S UI F3 115 60 19304 - 5/27/90
1899 12” T UI E7 104 60 35065 - 5/27/90
1899 12” T UI E7 115 60 37440 - 5/27/90
1900 12” S UI F9 104 60 46976 12721 5/27/90
1900 12” T UI F9 104 60 48120 12733 5/27/90
1899 12” S UI F 115 60 78119 3225 5/27/90 (Should be a Form F4 but the "4" is not stamped on the tag)
1901 16” S AA A 108/115 60 94335 17258 7/31/00
1902 12” S AB B 110/115 60 106243 30042 6/25/01
1902 12” S AB B 110/115 60 107623 30042 6/25/01
1902 12” T AD B 110/115 60 112293 - 6/25/01
1903 12” T AK C 110/115 60 169138 - 6/25/01
1900 12” S UI F9 104 60 181508 - 6/25/01
*1904 16” T AK D 110/115 60 186108 - 6/25/01
*1904 12” T AK D 110/115 60 201827 - 6/25/01
1904 12” T AK D 110/115 60 201873 - 6/25/01
*1904 16” T AK D 110/115 60 207123 - 6/25/01
1905 12” T - - 110/115 60 217657 - 6/25/01
*1907 12” T - - 110/115 60 273876 - 6/25/01
Some interesting details here:
1. Two 1900 stick mounts but look at the second one and how high the serial number is. This fan is typical in all ways of a 1900 model yet the tag has a last patent date of 6-25-1901. Why? Was this pancake assembled and sold much later than 1900? Was it rebuilt by GE and given a new motor tag? The serial number is in the 1904 range according to Don Eckerson's survey. The 1899 stick mount serial number is in the range for a 1901 pancake. All other of these motors serial numbers are within Don's survey range for the year given.
2. It looks like one could order an 1899 model for either 104 or 115 volts. Maybe other years like 1900 were also available in both voltages?
3. What is the "SPEC. NO. and what significance does it have? Some motor tags have SPEC stanmped into the tag with no number afterwards while other tags do not have the word SPEC on them.
4. Somewhere I heard that struts on the 1900 were beefed up from the somewhat thin ones used in 1899 but my 1900s all had the same struts as my 1899s. That is until I got my third 1900 model (ser. 46976). The struts are the same width as the other 1899 and 1900s I have but are considerably thicker material- .094" vs .066" thick. The rear ring on the 1899 cage is the same thickness wire as the front ring while, in 1900, the rear ring wire was made much thicker than the front ring. 1900 struts do have a significant difference in that they have a bend to accomodate the larger thickness of the rear ring. An 1899 strut looks just like a 1900 but the bend in the 1899 strut will only allow it to fit an 1899 cage. And then there's my new 1900 with the thicker struts. Such fun to be able to compare a lot of machines at the same time.
5. Trunnion motor tags for 1899 are 6 inch in length, 7 inches in length for 1900, and 7-3/4" in length for 1902 and 1903. I don't have a 1901 cake to check length but would guess it would be the longer 7-3/4". A little known detail. Now that Nick Loos is making pancake motor tags for 1899-1903 be sure to ask for the right length. The mounting screw holes will be located differently on the three years so you won't be able to use a wrong year tag on a fan from 1899-1902. 1904 pancakes are the first to use an etched tag in place of the previous flat tag (from 1899 through 1903) that was stamped with the data. Early 1904 16" pancakes seem to have still used the older style stamped motor tag but isn't it much narrower that the typical stamped tags. photo below- courtesy of the Geoff Dunaway collection; 1904 Type AK Form D.Attached Image (viewed 874 times):
 Last edited on Sat Jun 27th, 2009 04:33 am by Steve Stephens
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Stan Adams
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Posted: Mon Jun 8th, 2009 03:07 am |
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1906 smooth base, swivel trunion, 12", AC current
Ser.#232669
Stan
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Kim Frank
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Posted: Tue Jun 9th, 2009 04:26 pm |
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99 12" stick UI Form F4 34540
99 12" trunnion UI Form E7 42564
00 12 stick AB form A 44261
00 12" trunnion UI Form E9 45411
00 12" trunnion s/n 56098 *no longer own
01 12" stick UI form F 132920
01 12" trunnion AD form A 88825
01 16" stick AA form A 77435
02 12" trunnion AD form B 104336
02 12" stick AB form B 131624
03 12" stick AB form C 153235 Full ribbed base
03 12" stick AB form C 177219 half ribbed base
04 12" trunnion AK form D 189888
04 12" trunnion AK form D 202735
04 12" trunnion AK form D 205635
04 16" trunnion AK form D 206132 cage has pierced rear ring with BMY style badge
05 12" trunnion s/n 214081
06 12" trunnion s/n 265602
06 12" trunnion CGE s/n 271497
07 12" trunnion s/n 292418
07 12" trunnion s/n 293808
08 12" trunnion s/n 324456
Don, I have six or seven more out in storage that I'll dig out the info when I have more time. Also have an '08 16" BMY with cake blade and cage. I'll dig it out and get the s/n to see if anything is interesting. All of above are a/c with a couple different voltages and cycles. A few years ago in an earlier survey, the last listed s/n for a pancake was 324457. Any idea who owns that one? Kim
Last edited on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 09:35 pm by Kim Frank
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Steve Stephens
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Posted: Tue Jun 9th, 2009 04:59 pm |
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Don, I edited my list above. Note that my 1899 stick is stamped FORM F, not FORM F4 as it should be. Could that be because it appears to have been made during the 1900 model year? Or they just forgot to stamp the "4"? Saw that Kims was an F4 and wanted to have accurate information for my fans.
Steve
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Jerry F Bacon
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Posted: Tue Jun 9th, 2009 11:34 pm |
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1903 trun. type AD form c 100-115 volts 152554 spec.
last pat. june 25,1901 size 12"
Kindest Regards,
Jerry F Bacon
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Steve Stephens
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Posted: Wed Jun 10th, 2009 12:05 am |
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Jerry F Bacon wrote:
152554 spec.
That number would be the serial number, not the SPEC number, yes?
Isn't the blank on the tag for SPEC blank?
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Doug Handley
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Posted: Wed Jun 10th, 2009 01:45 am |
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My earlier post has disappeared. So here is mine again:
1900 ?
Trunnion
AC
Type U1
Form E
Ser. # 52345
Spec # 12784
Last pat. date: May 27,'90
And a 1901 that had no motor tag when acquired.
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Dennis Lebow
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Posted: Wed Jun 10th, 2009 02:32 am |
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YEAR SIZE FRAME TYPE FORM SERIAL # SPEC. CURRENT VOLTS CYCLE
99 12'' STICK UI F4 34272 NONE AC 104 125
01 12'' STICK AB A 85228 17222 AC 108/115 60
01 12'' TRUNNION AD A 88754 17231 AC 108/115 60
02 12'' STICK AB B 114207 NONE AC 100/115 60
Last edited on Thu Jun 11th, 2009 02:17 am by Dennis Lebow
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Don Eckerson
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Posted: Wed Jun 10th, 2009 02:36 am |
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Kim,
How many pounds of "Pancakes" do you have? Last reported Cakes thus far are SN 324679 (12") and SN 324973 (16"). There is a loose tag (no fan) with a higher number that is currently being researched. Also this survey may turn up some surprises.
Thx, Don
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Kim Frank
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Posted: Wed Jun 10th, 2009 03:07 am |
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| Well Don, I kinda got a thing for GE's. The BMY's and the Cakes are my favorites, both to collect and work on. Wish I could afford the earlier ones, but '99 is about as far back as I can go and stay married. Looking forward to seeing the new survey. Let me know if I can do anything to help. Kim
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Jerry F Bacon
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Posted: Wed Jun 10th, 2009 04:41 am |
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Steve, yes the space after spec. is blank.
Cheers from Dallas
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Don Eckerson
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Posted: Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 02:56 am |
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Keep 'em coming....
1899 12" AC Swivel Frame SN 37213
1901 12" AC Swivel Frame SN 85173
1901 16" AC Swivel Frame SN 94359
1902 12" AC Swivel-Trunnion Frame SN 116890
1902 12" AC Swivel-Trunnion Frame SN 142906
1904 12" AC Swivel-Trunnion Frame SN 181424
1904 12" AC Swivel-Trunnion Frame SN 188097
1904 16" AC Swivel-Trunnion Frame SN 181221
Thx, Don
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Don Eckerson
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Posted: Sat Jun 27th, 2009 02:30 am |
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Couple more....keep 'em coming:
1902 12" AC Swivel-Trunnion Frame SN 119955
1903 12" AC Swivel Frame SN 159299 (NOTE: Full Rib, 10-S, 4Strut)
Thx, Don
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Russ Huber
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Posted: Sat Jun 27th, 2009 04:13 am |
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| 1905 16" (190/220 VAC) Swivel Trunnion Frame SN 213512
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Don Eckerson
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Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 02:04 pm |
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Hey-Hey....two fourteen inchers
1899 14" AC Swivel Frame SN 33923
1900 14" AC Swivel Frame SN 53357
Thx, Don
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Stefan Osdene
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Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 03:33 pm |
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My 1899 14" no. 33923 is not a swivel frame. I meant to say it is a stickmount rather than candlestick. Here are some pictures of it.
Attached Image (viewed 581 times):
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Stefan Osdene
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Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 03:33 pm |
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Second Image.
Attached Image (viewed 581 times):
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Stefan Osdene
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Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 03:34 pm |
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Third Image.
Attached Image (viewed 567 times):
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Stefan Osdene
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Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 03:35 pm |
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Fourth Image.
Attached Image (viewed 575 times):
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Stefan Osdene
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Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 03:37 pm |
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And I did come across a picture with the tag information from my 12" Lynn Works. Serial Number 5337, Volts 52, Cycles 125. Here is an image.
Attached Image (viewed 567 times):
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Ron Jeter
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Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 04:00 pm |
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| Don: Only have one and its Form C - Serial No. 150621 - Stick Mount 100/115 volts - 60 cycle - Type AB
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Jerry Henry
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Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 06:08 pm |
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HELLO DON, BET ITS BEEN 15 YEARS SINCE WE VISITED LAST, GREAT TO SEE YOU CONTINUING THE DATA RESEARCH ON GEs. I WOULD HAVE RESPONDED EARLIER, BUT I HAD TO RUN MY TROTLINE TO PULL MY ONE & ONLY GE UP FOR THE DATA.
AC TYPE UI FORM E7 29466 TRUNNION
DON'T KNOW WHAT MY FRIEND KIM CAN GET FOR MIXED IRON SCRAP IN THE SUNSHINE STATE, BUT IF HE COULD GET THAT LOAD HE LISTED OVER TO ME WE CAN EASLY GET .045 CENTS PER LB HERE AND HE'D HAVE ENOUGH TO BUY A BUILT TO LAST EMERSON.
DON, SINCERELY, THANKS FOR ALL YOUR DEDICATION TO THE CLUB AND EFFORTS APPLIED, YOUR INFORMATION OVER MANY YEARS HAS BEEN MY VALUED REFERENCE TO GE PRODUCTS AND I MUST ADMIT I HAD SOME 20 PANCAKES B4 I STARTED WINDING MY COLLECTION DOWN. KIND REGARDS, JERRY
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Don Eckerson
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Posted: Fri Jul 3rd, 2009 02:47 pm |
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A clarification is appropriate. I asked that you describe your fan as a "swivel-trunnion frame" or a "swivel frame" fan. The "swivel-trunnion" description is straightforward, i.e. up-down, side-to-side. The "swivel frame" description is indeed confusing.
I imagine the term "swivel frame" came about since a half-turn on the post nut will allow side-to-side movement. The fans made after 1899 were set up this way. The earlier fans were described as "solid base" and did not have this side-to-side feature. Interesting too are the many buzzwords associated with these two frames, i.e. "stick", "candle-stick", "solid mount", "fixed mount", "banded motor", "rigid frame", you-name-it.
The purpose of this forum series is to collect serial numbers and help identify a specific year in history. The year and serial number are critical input. Other input, such as size and frame description is less critical, but appreciated.
So much for trying to keep things simple (chuckle-chuckle).
Thx, Don
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Kim Frank
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Posted: Fri Jul 3rd, 2009 03:45 pm |
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Jerry Henry wrote: I HAD TO RUN MY TROTLINE TO PULL MY ONE & ONLY GE UP FOR THE DATA.
Jerry..... What are those GE's biting on? Didn't know you could catch 'em. For the record....I have as many Emerson's as I do GE's because every time I'd buy an Emerson, they'd give me a GE so as I'd have something that would run and keep me cool. Got the Emersons chained under the frame of our mobile house to keep it from blowing away in one of them hurricanes.
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Richard Larson
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Posted: Fri Jul 3rd, 2009 07:07 pm |
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12" SN#213828 100/115v 60cy.
I believe this to be an early 05 swivel trunnion. This is the nicest all original cake I've had. Original paint is 95%, original bottom cover, everything is there. The slotted motor nuts have zero mars or dings, I dont think the motor itself has ever been opened. All I have done is clean it up and install new (NOS, not repro) wire. Runs great on all 5 speeds although will only start in high. I need to open the motor and clean the bearing and oil cup and install a new wick which should get it starting up better. I have also put a standard (but lovely old heavy bakelite) plug on for running but I'm keeping the swivel Benjamin plug with it. Someone let me know if I have the date wrong.
Big photos - not dialup friendly... sorry. Linked only due to size.
http://i44.tinypic.com/a4tzm1.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/2ewo5d5.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/jrz6dd.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/140djwy.jpg
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Richard Larson
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Posted: Fri Jul 3rd, 2009 09:05 pm |
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My other 2 cakes..... not including the Halliwells based on a 16" cake and a 16" I bought which is already listed.
Not sure if I'm correct on the years on these. Maybe someone will chime in.
1902 Stick
#114762
Type AB Form B
100/115v 60cy
1905 Swivel Trunnion
#215262
100/115v 60cy
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Robert Todd
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Posted: Fri Jul 3rd, 2009 09:20 pm |
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1902
Type AD Form B
12" Swivel Trunion
110/115 Volt AC
Number 107455
Last edited on Fri Jul 3rd, 2009 09:22 pm by Robert Todd
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Don Eckerson
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Posted: Mon Jul 6th, 2009 02:14 am |
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Some 05's.......
1905 12" Swivel-Trunnion SN 225255
1905 12" Swivel-Trunnion SN 210193
1905 16" Swivel-Trunnion SN 216511
Keep 'em coming.
Thx, Don
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Don Eckerson
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Posted: Mon Jul 13th, 2009 01:32 pm |
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Here's some more....
1908 12" Swivel-Trunnion SN 324457
1906 12" Swivel-Trunnion SN 275453
1901 12" "Stick" SN 76363
Thx, Don
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Kim Frank
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Posted: Mon Jul 27th, 2009 09:12 pm |
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Don, a few more.......
1901 16" stick Fm A type AA s/n 99181 100/108v ac
1903 12" trunnion Fm C Type AK s/n 172020 3 struts, 10 wire cage, cast brass hub blade 110v ac
1904 12" trunnion Form D type AK s/n 188470 110v ac
1906 12" trunnion s/n 262731 has earlier motor housing 110v ac
1906 12" trunnion s/n 266290 has plain motor 110v ac
1907 12" trunnion s/n 278270 110v ac
Last edited on Tue Jul 28th, 2009 01:13 pm by Kim Frank
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Don Eckerson
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Posted: Wed Aug 5th, 2009 03:41 pm |
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Hi All...here's a recap of our latest survey from the emails and forum postings. There are a few SN's that I am questioning that are not yet included.
Keep 'em coming .......Thx, Don
1894:
1895:
1896: 11142
1897:
1898: 21798 Lo, 29466 Hi,
1899: 33923 Lo, 42564 Hi, 35065, 39440, 34540, 34272, 37213
1900: 44261 Lo, 56098 Hi, 46976, 48120, 45411, 52345, 53357
1901: 65228 Lo, 99181 Hi, 94375, 88825, 77435, 68754, 85173, 76363, 94359
1902: 104336 Lo, 142906 Hi, 106243, 107623, 112293, 114208, 116890, 119955, 114762, 107455
1903: 152554 Lo, 172020 Hi, 169138, 153235, 159299
1904: 181221 Lo, 207123 Hi, 186108, 201827, 201873, 206132, 189888, 202735, 205631, 181424, 188097, 188470
1905: 210193 Lo, 225255 Hi, 217657, 214081, 213512, 213868, 216511
1906: 232669 Lo, 275453 Hi, 265602, 271497, 262731, 266290
1907: 278270 Lo, 293808 Hi, 292418
1908: 324456 Lo, 324457 Hi
*****************************************
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Paul Pierson
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Posted: Wed Aug 5th, 2009 06:52 pm |
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here is my contribution........
1894 12" Schenectady Serial # 1657 52 Volts 125 CyclesAttached Image (viewed 319 times):
 Last edited on Thu Aug 6th, 2009 03:48 am by Paul Pierson
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Steve Stephens
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Posted: Wed Aug 5th, 2009 08:49 pm |
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Paul, that's a beautiful pancake and all original. You are lucky to have such a gem and your camera setting of "engraving" fits the fan so well.
What's the connection between the LYNN WORKS tagged early pancakes and the SCHENECTADY tagged ones? Obviously, probably, the LYNN WORKS ones were made in the Lynn factory in Lynn, MA which has been there since 1892 and the Schenectady marked pancakes made in the main plant.
Can one date a very early (1894-95) pancakes by which plant it was made in?
The 1894 models were made for 125 cycles only. I am not sure if the 1895 models were also made in 60 cycles.
Does anyone know of the existance of a 12" 1895 model? What does it look like? Unfortunatly there are not enough of these early pancakes to go around.
The fan below belongs to a member. What looks like the original thumbnut on the right terminal is different than the thumbnut style on "Paul's" fan above and GE said there was a difference between 1894 nad 1895 model thumbnuts so that would date "Paul's" to 1894 and "mine" to 1895. "Mine is a nice fan but not MINE.
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 Last edited on Wed Aug 5th, 2009 09:02 pm by Steve Stephens
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Don Eckerson
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Posted: Thu Aug 6th, 2009 08:00 pm |
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Steve,
TERMINALS:
GE Report 4667 cites only a 10-inch, 125 cycle fan for 1894. As you noted, it also mentions the 1894 terminals are smaller and a different pattern relative to the 1895 model.
SIZE & CYCLES:
GE Bulletin 4038, dated March 15, 1895, cites both 10-inch (60 & 125 cycles) and 12-inch (60 & 125 cycles). It seems reasonable to me the 12-inch fan was available months before this March bulletin, i.e. late 1894. Understand too, the 10-inch fan was introduced late in 1894, i.e. August 6, 1894 (Illustrated Electrical Review pub) and August 11, 1894 (Electrical World pub).
NAMEPLATE (LYNN WORKS U.S.A. vs SCHENETADY U.S.A.):
GE Report 4667 has a photo attached to the 1894 section which shows "SCHENETADY U.S.A." This has lead to confusion has to exactly when the production shifted from MASS to NY. One "Lynn owner" has heard that all the 1894-5 fans sold at retail had "LYNN WORKS U.S.A." and the promotion fans had "SCHENETADY U.S.A.". As I often say, "research continues..."
Thx, Don
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Steve Stephens
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Posted: Thu Aug 6th, 2009 10:03 pm |
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Don Eckerson wrote:
As I often say, "research continues..."
Thx, Don
And so it does. Thanks to you Don and many others we know so much more about GEs than we used to. May all the right answers pop up and be put down on paper or computer for safe keeping and viewing.
Anyone want to do a specific GE pancake coffee table book with glossy color photos, specs, ads, and all that stuff?
I'll buy a copy but can see it wouldn't be a money maker but would increase the value of pancakes which would not be a plus.
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Kim Frank
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Posted: Fri Aug 7th, 2009 01:24 am |
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| A coffee table book! Steve, sounds like a good project to me. You ought to take it upon yourself to produce it. I'm sure it would be a goodseller if not a best seller. I know at least three who would be interested........ Attached Image (viewed 258 times):
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Chad Baker
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Posted: Fri Aug 7th, 2009 01:36 am |
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| Looks like they loved reading the book. Maybe he would use some of his stolen photos like the one of the Lynn Works (man I miss that fan).
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Steve Stephens
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Posted: Fri Aug 7th, 2009 02:08 am |
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Chad Baker wrote:
[ Maybe he would use some of his stolen photos like the one of the Lynn Works
Stolen photos? You mean ones posted originally on this forum like your Lynn Works or ones on ebay? Stolen?? Hardly! It seems that they were in the public domain when I captured them.
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Chad Baker
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Posted: Fri Aug 7th, 2009 02:23 am |
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