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Jon Strack
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Posted: Sat Jun 20th, 2009 11:24 pm |
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Hello all,
As you probably know, I have been itchy to get an antique fan. I was planning on going to the Saylorsburg Flea Market, but it was rained out. However, in my travels, I passed a small antique store that I hadn't visited before. Stopped in and was greeted by a small 50's Westinghouse. Thought "hmm, this store may have potential."
Saw a neat old GE 16" Vortalex. Kept going, figuring I would check out the store before making my decision. Then I saw it, tucked in a corner under a table: a black 16" S-Cage. Turned out to be a Robbins & Myers 1604SP. Headwire is in good shape, and still even has the felt base. Powercord is rubber lampcord under a rubber shield, and still pliable. I'm guessing it was replaced at some point. Plugged it in and it ran nice and quiet. Looked to be in good shape, paint is still there and in good shape. As far as I can tell, it looks like it *might* be missing the oscillator screw, but I'm not sure. The oscillator screw turns, but the shaft doesn't move. I hoped that someone on the forum would know where to get a screw if need be, so I picked it up. I wanted to grab the Vortalex too, but couldn't afford it, and decided I only really needed one project right now.
I wanted to get more info from you guys regarding this fan. I'll tell you everything I know, in the hopes that you can identify it for me. It's a 16" 3 speed oscillator. Here's the info on the plate:
LIST: 1604SP
Serial: M14975P
I can't figure out what the blades are made out of. They are black, and a magnet does not stick to them. The slide switch on the base reads off, high, medium, low
Does anyone know about when this was made? Anything in particular I should be aware of in regard to disassembly / cleaning of this fan?
Thanks,
Jon
Attached Image (viewed 459 times):
 Last edited on Sat Jun 20th, 2009 11:48 pm by Jon Strack
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Richard Larson
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Posted: Sat Jun 20th, 2009 11:45 pm |
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| Take some pictures and post them for us Jon. Congrats on your first fan!!
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Jon Strack
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Posted: Sat Jun 20th, 2009 11:50 pm |
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Here's the back. Let me know if you need to see anything in particular.
-Jon
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Ralph Bliss
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Posted: Sat Jun 20th, 2009 11:50 pm |
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| Jon,is the base cast iron or stamped steel? pictures would help to identify it.
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Ralph Bliss
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Posted: Sat Jun 20th, 2009 11:53 pm |
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| looks to be from about mid 1930's
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Jon Strack
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Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 12:05 am |
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I don't know what the base is made of. Here's a pic:
Attached Image (viewed 444 times):
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Jon Strack
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Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 12:05 am |
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Side shot:
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Ralph Bliss
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Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 12:13 am |
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| I'd guess the base and motor housing are steel. Cast iron is much thicker and heaver. The blades, if not steel, might be brass. I'm not sure what other metals were used for blades in the 30's.
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Jon Strack
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Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 12:19 am |
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Here's a question I've been pondering: How do I separate the blade from the cage? This cage appears to be a one piece affair, with no struts. It looks like in order to get the cage off, I would have to loosen the blade set screw and take it off with it. Any other thoughts as to how to do this? BTW, this fan weighs like a stone! Never felt anything so heavy in my life!
-Jon
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Austin B Ko
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Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 12:21 am |
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Ralph Bliss wrote: I'd guess the base and motor housing are steel. Cast iron is much thicker and heaver. The blades, if not steel, might be brass. I'm not sure what other metals were used for blades in the 30's. The blades are aluminum if I am correct.
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Jon Strack
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Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 12:24 am |
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I was going to guess aluminum to look at it, but I didn't know if they used aluminum at that time.
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Bill Kreiner
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Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 12:27 am |
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This fan is not in my 1934 catalog. Judging from the cage design, it's newer than that.
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Steve Stephens
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Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 12:37 am |
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Jon,
I think that may be the first of many fans in your future. Congratulations.
Stamped steel base and motor, aluminum blades, mid-30s but not sure exactly when. Good chance it's a 6 pole motor unless R&M also used 4 poles on their fans of that period. The blades look deeply pitched which would indicate a 6 pole motor making the fan run slower and quieter.
The cage should come off by removing the screws holding the cage wires to the motor front and the blade has a set screw. I don't know if both have to come off together or if you can work the cage over the blades or the blade out through the cage as is sometimes the case. You'd swear you can't get the blade out of the cage but, finally, you see how to. Try to remember that so you can get them back together without pulling your hair out.
I hope it gets hot in the USA as that's a big air mover. Out here in my part of California it doesn't get hot that often so smaller fans are what get used.
I can't help you on the oscillator screw or whatever might be missing or not working as I'm not familiar with that mechanism. Slightly earlier R&M oscillators had a thumbscrew on the side of the oscillator wheel that you'd screw in or out to reduce or increase the degree of oscillation.
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Jon Strack
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Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 12:43 am |
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Steve,
You nailed it about the oscillator! I found the screw and turned it, and voila, she oscillates! Thanks for the tip!
-Jon
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Jon Strack
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Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 12:52 am |
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What would be appropriate as far as the power cord goes? I'm assuming it was cotton covered wire originally? Where would be a place to get that? Perhaps Radio Daze?
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Ralph Bliss
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Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 01:01 am |
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| Jon, PM your address and I'll send you some cloth covered power cord.
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Alison Fea
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Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 01:04 am |
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| Congrats & good luck Jon!
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Jon Strack
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Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 01:19 am |
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Ralph,
PM Sent
Thanks a lot!
-Jon
Ralph Bliss wrote: Jon, PM your address and I'll send you some cloth covered power cord.
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Jon Strack
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Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 01:21 am |
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Thanks Alison! I am excited to get start on this one.
I can tell it's not going to be easy: While trying to take the cage off, the second nut I came across was the wrong type, and as a result, has stripped the bolt! So, it looks
like I'll have to take everything off the back with the cage still attached, and get in there to somehow keep the bolt from moving. Plus, it's missing another nut. Oy. This is going to be an adventure!
-Jon
Alison Fea wrote: Congrats & good luck Jon!
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Jon Strack
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Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 01:32 am |
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I found out why the screw appeared to be stripped. Some knucklehead took the nut off the front of the motor housing and used it to secure the cage! No wonder the cage sat crooked.
Last edited on Sun Jun 21st, 2009 01:42 am by Jon Strack
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Ralph Bliss
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Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 01:53 am |
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Let the adventure begin!! 
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Jon Strack
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Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 01:55 am |
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As far as basic cleaning goes, would an all purpose cleaner like Fantastik be okay? Or would that be too weak? I have an old toothbrush that I could gently use in more stubborn spots.
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Steve Stephens
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Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 01:57 am |
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| I've used both WD-40 on a rag or with a toothbrush and, also, non-abrasive waterless hand cleaner to clean fans. Not sure what Fantastic would do.
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Nicholas Denney
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Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 02:00 am |
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Bill Kreiner wrote: This fan is not in my 1934 catalog. Judging from the cage design, it's newer than that.
This is the 16" version of the 1304... both are post-Depression fans so they shouldn't be much newer, IMO.
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Jon Strack
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Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 02:06 am |
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I also have Bon Ami cleaner which is a dry powder. Works well for cleaning sinks, stove tops, etc: http://www.bonami.com/uses/intro.html
EDIT: While inspecting the blade, I had the saddening discovery that one of the blades has a small bend in it. Nothing wicked, but enough to be disturbing.
Last edited on Sun Jun 21st, 2009 02:08 am by Jon Strack
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Jon Strack
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Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 02:10 am |
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I see there are no pictures of the 1604 in the Gallery. Once it's cleaned up, I would be happy to submit a picture if that's possible?
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Steve Stephens
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Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 02:11 am |
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Isn't Bon Ami somewhat abrasive? It may say it's not but feel it when wet with water.
Jon, does your fan's motor tag have the following patent on it? 2120321
http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=hT9KAAAAEBAJ&dq=patent:2120321&as_drrb_ap=q&as_minm_ap=0&as_miny_ap=&as_maxm_ap=0&as_maxy_ap=&as_drrb_is=q&as_minm_is=0&as_miny_is=&as_maxm_is=0&as_maxy_is=
That patent is from 1938 which would make your fan no older than '38. There is a 12" 1304 in our gallery with the date on the tag.
Motor nuts: Check out that patent; it will probably be of more interest to you than what I understand.
Bends in blades can sometimes be removed entirely. If the bend is right at the edge of the rivets or blade wing it may be hard to impossible. One thing you want to watch for on fans is bent blades, mainly creased or sharply bent blades as well as blades that are out of clock with all wings not equidistant from each other. You'll learn in time what to watch out for but, for now, you are learning the best way by working on your own new fan.Last edited on Sun Jun 21st, 2009 02:14 am by Steve Stephens
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Bill Kreiner
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Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 02:13 am |
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Nicholas Denney wrote: Bill Kreiner wrote: This fan is not in my 1934 catalog. Judging from the cage design, it's newer than that.
This is the 16" version of the 1304... both are post-Depression fans so they shouldn't be much newer, IMO.
Well, the Depression didn't officially end for the U.S. until we entered WWII in late 1941, though there had been a few less severe years scattered throughout the 1930s. The cage design looks late-1930s or early-1940s to me.
Here is a page from my '34 catalog. Note the angularity and straightness of the cages.
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Jon Strack
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Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 02:30 am |
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Steve,
I didn't use the Bon Ami. So far, I've just been using water to clean the fan blade, as it seems to be the only thing I have that's ok so far! I'll try a little WD-40 if I have any greasy spots until I can get some Mother's Mag and Aluminum polish.
I couldn't find any tags on the motor at all, just one on the base which doesn't have any patents on it. Where would I find the motor tag?
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Jon Strack
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Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 02:32 am |
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The blade has a slight crease right at the rivets
Is this a death knell?
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Steve Stephens
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Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 02:42 am |
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No death to your fan but it probably won't be perfect. You might find a blade somewhere that is good though those fans aren't too common.
Your fan is probably a little earlier than the 1304 in the gallery which has this base tag, below, and has to be no earlier than 1938. (No motor tags on these fans)
Be sure to CLEAN the fan before you polish it. I think you will need something more than water for cleaning, especially if the fan has the usual accumulation of old oil and grease around the motor and oscillator. That stuff can be hard to remove while leaving the paint ok.Attached Image (viewed 355 times):
 Last edited on Sun Jun 21st, 2009 02:43 am by Steve Stephens
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Jon Strack
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Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 02:50 am |
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I definitely need more than water to clean it. I'll have to try to get a hold of something stronger. There's an article under the info section recommending brake cleaner, but it sounds like occasionally it could be harmful to the paint. What do you guys recommend?
Also, my base plate looks the same as the one above.
Last edited on Sun Jun 21st, 2009 02:51 am by Jon Strack
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Bill Kreiner
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Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 02:54 am |
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Jon Strack wrote: I definitely need more than water to clean it. I'll have to try to get a hold of something stronger. There's an article under the info section recommending brake cleaner, but it sounds like occasionally it could be harmful to the paint. What do you guys recommend?
Also, my base plate looks the same as the one above.
As long as you don't leave the brake cleaner on the paint for too long, it shouldn't ruin it. Gary Heidenfeldt told me about using brake cleaner (mainly for bare metal surfaces), and it works wonders.
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Duane Burright
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Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 04:22 am |
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Jon Strack wrote: I definitely need more than water to clean it. I'll have to try to get a hold of something stronger. There's an article under the info section recommending brake cleaner, but it sounds like occasionally it could be harmful to the paint. What do you guys recommend?
Also, my base plate looks the same as the one above.
I cleaned up a 50's vintage Signal using just dish soap and hot water with a soft bristle brush. Be sure to remove all electrical components before doing that of course.
I use Brake Cleaner only to degrease things like oscillator gearboxes and such.
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John Fengel
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Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 05:40 am |
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I definitely need more than water to clean it.
Buy yourself a small container of Go-Jo Hand Original Hand Cleaner to remove the old grease. It will be the one without the pumice in it. Take a small piece of FINE Scotch Bright, wet it with the Go-Jo and scrub away. You can rinse it off with water or a wet rag. Once you have the grease and oil off it, use some Maguire's 3 step system.... Paint Cleaner, Paint Polish and Carnauba Wax to shine it up. Each Maguire product is sold in its own bottle.
Some of the Westinghouse fans had pretty thin paint. I would be careful using Brake Cleaner as it may remove the paint.
Good luck.
John
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Bill Kreiner
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Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 06:01 am |
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Duane Burright wrote: Jon Strack wrote: I definitely need more than water to clean it. I'll have to try to get a hold of something stronger. There's an article under the info section recommending brake cleaner, but it sounds like occasionally it could be harmful to the paint. What do you guys recommend?
Also, my base plate looks the same as the one above.
I cleaned up a 50's vintage Signal using just dish soap and hot water with a soft bristle brush. Be sure to remove all electrical components before doing that of course.
I use Brake Cleaner only to degrease things like oscillator gearboxes and such.
I use dish soap and water, too, quite often. Dow "Scrubbing Bubbles" also works well on some things.
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William Schaub
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Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 06:26 am |
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Try grease cutting dish soap and/or glass cleaner.
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Ralph Bliss
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Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 11:26 am |
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| Dawn dish detergent works very good, it really cuts through the dirt and grease well. There is a product called Super Clean, DONT use it on painted parts, its so strong it will melt the paint!
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Jon Strack
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Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 11:33 am |
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Good morning everyone,
It sounds like dish detergent is the way to go. I didn't get very far last night. I just got the cage and blade off, and did a little cleaning on the blade. Unfortunately, I won't be able to work on it again until this weekend, as I work out of town, and of course today is father's day. It looks like so far, I'll need two acorn nuts, as it's missing two.
-Jon
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Steve Stephens
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Posted: Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 05:20 pm |
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This looks like your fan now on ebay Jon.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Antique-18-Robbins-Myers-Oscillating-3-Speed-Fan_W0QQitemZ120438550045QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1c0ab26e1d&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A3%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1205%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A100
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