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Evan Atkinson
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Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 05:52 am |
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I'm curious to know how expensive and difficult it is to install a whole-house attic fan. Has anyone here done it themselves?
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Steve Stephens
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Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 06:10 am |
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I helped my Dad install about a 30" squirrel cage belt driven whole house fan in the early 50s. Can I remember how much work it was? No. But it was very handy to cool the house down, especially just before thunderstorms. Dad said that if all the house windows were closed when the fan started it could suck the walls in. I don't think it was really THAT powerful but it did SUCK and worked very well.
For years I have thought about putting one in my house but the problem and most work would be to provide enough vent area for exhaust in the attic.
Then I saw this fan and I might install one. But every time I think about it I realize that I probably would not use it all that much with our nights cooling off so well.
Check it out anyway. If you pick it up in Ashland, OR the larger one is $800 with no tax.
http://www.airscapefans.com/whole-house-fans.php?PHPSESSID=k0o6sqd85tr1l63ul7j77sf2g3
I was pretty impressed seeing the two drop-in fans at a tradeshow. Quiet, simple to install, and they look well made and durable. I don't know anything about the ducted models.
You will have to cut a hole in the ceiling and run electrical to the fan and two speed wall switch. If your attic has enough vent area you'll be set. If not you have to open up the vents or provide more.Last edited on Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 06:11 am by Steve Stephens
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Steve Sherwood
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Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 12:44 pm |
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You would probably have to some some frame work with 2 x 4's, some sheet rock cutting and add electrical if none is available.
Steve Sherwood
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Will Guidry
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Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 02:00 pm |
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| Wow...thanks, Steve....that's an impressive, modernized concept. The old-school, louvered 36"+ "attic" fans which were around in my young days were great and prolly could collapse walls if you forgot to open a window! I remember being lulled to sleep by the very-low frequency beat of those massive pitched blades. Many houses down here still have 'em up in the attic, just covered up....still see them frequently at demolition sites, pulled out and set aside for grabs. My nephew took one, made a sturdy box for it, put casters on the bottom and 3/8" wire mesh on the front and back and now has a very high-thrust roll-around for shopwork, barbeques, etc! With the prices listed on Airscape, it would have to be the way to go....unless these have Communist Chinese motors, then you'd be happy for say...maybe one season?
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Ron Powell
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Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 02:14 pm |
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Will, I see only one draw back to these attic fans and that is you got to have open soffits or vents in the attic or you'll start sucking your cool air (air conditioning) from your home to the attic adding to cooling costs.
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Richard Larson
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Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 02:19 pm |
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| I think all attics have soffit/eave/roof vents of some sort. Our attic fan will most defintley suck the cool air out of the house. Thats the direction they run. They pull air from an open window through the house and out through the attic. My house has a 24" vertically mounted one.
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Will Guidry
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Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 02:50 pm |
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| With newer homes I'd be lost...my old crib is from the late 1920's and has 24 X 30" shuttered air vents at each end of the house. One of the biggest benefits of attic fans is that they keep hot air from accumulating in the attic, continuously purging and cycling moving air through. An eco-engineer told me one time that trying to cool a living area under a hot attic is like mounting your refrigerator under your oven...that one shouldn't (viably) attempt to keep room temperature cooler than thirty degrees of the attic space (100 degree attic, 70-degree room temperature). The powered (or 'passive'..'whirlybird) attic vents help to acheive this, but if your attic is closed with only passive ridge-caps or soffit vents, your AC is gonna' cost you, almost regardless of insulation. Down here on the Gulf Coast the summers are brutal, so smart folks are always trying to improve on cooling costs....where are you on this discussion, Huffman?
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Steve Cunningham
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Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 03:02 pm |
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| It shouldn't be hard. You'd frame it in, like a window. Cut out the opening, then install the box into the frame. We had one. They work. But when you pull air in from outside, expect dust to come in too. We'd close all windows except for the ones by the beds. Plus in winter, your heat will rise right out of the ceiling thorugh the vents.
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Ron Powell
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Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 03:16 pm |
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Richard Larson wrote: I think all attics have soffit/eave/roof vents of some sort. Our attic fan will most defintley suck the cool air out of the house. Thats the direction they run. They pull air from an open window through the house and out through the attic. My house has a 24" vertically mounted one. You'd be surprised Richard.
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Evan Atkinson
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Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 03:56 pm |
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| Thanks guys. Hmmm. Are there any older and nice-looking examples of attic fans? Ones that have decoration on the grills, or something? I would think they're mostly utilitarian and not anything to look at. Current pad is from '41 and someone stuck a 1970's model in the hallway ceiling. It's got a louvered grill that opens by the force of the suction. Works like a charm, though I'm house-hunting and want my new place to have one. It's a super efficient and effective way to cool, especially here in CA.
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Steve Stephens
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Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 04:22 pm |
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The fans used on the Airscape units are 8" fans used in computer rooms. I don't know where they are made. Also, they have a built-in insulated damper opened by small motors when the unit is running so there is no loss of your air conditioning or heat when the unit is not being run.
A whole house fan is not an attic fan. It's meant to draw in cooler air from outside into the house and vent it through the attic. Usually used in the evenings to early mornings to get the inside temperature down; they you close up the house during the day. Here near San Francisco we usually cool into the 50s at night so such a fan would probably pull my house temp. down another 5 or so degrees than by just leaving the windows open at night.
Attic fans are, I guess, to just cool the attic to keep the heat buildup down up there.
Dust? Never thought about that; we have pretty clean air most of the time. My brother lived in Stockton, CA and would get dust from the farmer's fine soil in the valley.
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Stan Adams
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Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 06:29 pm |
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I have installed quite a few of them & have one we use now until it gets too hot every year. Depending on the build of your attic will determine the level of difficulty, trusses are a nightmare. If you have regular ceiling joists, you do like Steve suggested & frame it out. If the joists are too long to cut, build an air tight frame on top of them, they make louvers with a joist bar. If you want one that is low noise, get a belt drive. Direct drive fans are noisy & not nearly as efficient. A bunch of us Southern boys grew up with the old attic fan running 24/7, I can still remember dad bringing home our first A/C unit. It was a Gibson that stuck about 24" into the living room!
I think I have 4 or 5 of the 42" attic fans down in the storage building, but they would cost a fortune to ship.
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Steve Stephens
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Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 09:49 pm |
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Stan Adams wrote:
If you want one that is low noise, get a belt drive. Direct drive fans are noisy & not nearly as efficient.
That's true with the old style whole house fans but not with some of the new ones that use direct drive computer fans. The Airscape is a far cry from our fathers' house fans.
Watch this installation video. Of course it makes it look simple but I bet it is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag6A0e_rIAs
More info on installation-
http://www.airscapefans.com/support.php?PHPSESSID=k0o6sqd85tr1l63ul7j77sf2g3
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Richard Larson
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Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 10:01 pm |
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Yes but who of us woudl want some dinky modern fan? I want a big ol' heavy motor, ginormous blades....... and maybe.... custom clear louvers!! 
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Stan Adams
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Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 11:02 pm |
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Steve Stephens wrote: Stan Adams wrote:
If you want one that is low noise, get a belt drive. Direct drive fans are noisy & not nearly as efficient.
That's true with the old style whole house fans but not with some of the new ones that use direct drive computer fans. The Airscape is a far cry from our fathers' house fans.
Watch this installation video. Of course it makes it look simple but I bet it is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag6A0e_rIAs
More info on installation-
http://www.airscapefans.com/support.php?PHPSESSID=k0o6sqd85tr1l63ul7j77sf2g3 Steve, that is true unless you want one like mine that really moves some air. There is a really strong draft of air coming in all of the doors & windows when it is running.
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Steve Stephens
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Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 11:23 pm |
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| Stan, you must live where it's very hot, humid, and doesn't cool down much at night. Where I am one would get chilled really fast with a wind blowing through the house but, in hot areas, it must feel good. For me to run fans 24/7 like so many members do, I would have to put on a jacket. It just isn't that hot for very long here so my perspective is different than the majority of members. I think the only time I would have a whole house fan running is from around 8 or 10pm to 6am in order to cool the house down for the next day. We get several to maybe 10 days a year over 100. Last week we had a day 104 deg but it still cooled down to the lower 60s at night. That's when a house fan would get used here. I'm not sure I want to install one to use maybe 30-40 days of the year.
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Stan Adams
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Posted: Fri Jul 3rd, 2009 03:22 am |
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| Hey Steve, you are right, it is HOT & HUMID down here! I learned when I was a kid if the attic fan was on & you barely opened the window by the bed, the sheets would stand up. You had to peal them off in the morning due to the humidity, but it made for a good night's sleep!
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William Zucca
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Posted: Fri Jul 3rd, 2009 01:14 pm |
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Here in Vermont AC is a luxury and most nights it cools down very well (especially this year) so window fans are very popular. We just finished installing two 20" window fans in the second floor of our library building. It was a church until the 1930s and so has beautiful stained glass windows (which don't open) on the second floor. We use this room for our town historical society museum and meeting room but without air circulation in the summer it is just too hot up there to be comfortable. So, we pulled down the top sash of a rather large rear window and installed a pair of AirKing 20" fans and they do the job very well. Here are the details:
Blade Diameter: 20"
Shipping Weight: 35.1 lbs.
Product Dimensions: 26-3/4"L x 11-1/4"W x 26-1/4"H
Fits windows 27" to 38"W x 26-1/4"H
Electronically reversible
3 Speeds, for both Intake and Exhaust functions
Cord Location: Center front of fan
Bill in Vermont
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Evan Atkinson
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Posted: Sat Jul 4th, 2009 08:22 am |
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Thanks again. I'm referring to a "whole house fan" not attic fan, if there's a difference. We have a whole house fan in our hallway ceiling. It's a large motor, mounted on framing and joists directly connected to 3 large deeply pitched scoop-style blades. Once going, the suction draws open spring-loaded louvers. It pulls some serious air. The only thing "modern about it is the speed control: a wall-mounted affair that is simply a knob providing a universal range of speeds. It works very well.
Those Airscape fans are very modern but truthfully, I don't want something quite so computerized. I would rather have a belt-driven whole house fan, or something like we already have that's just a big motor with a fan and spring-loaded louvers.
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Richard Larson
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Posted: Sat Jul 4th, 2009 01:44 pm |
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Yes - whole house fan meaning like the one below. Never bothered to really look at ours much. Its Sears branded, not show is a thermostat on the wall which controls it. It's a direct drive 1/3 HP unit with a space saving vertical mount. This style lets you install it in most typical attics without having to cut any of the ceiling framing. When it's on, one word, WIND. If you dont open a window first after about 1 minute your ears will pop.
When running, if I open only windows downstairs (furthest from it) you get a nice breeze through the enitre house. When Kitty burns something in the kitchen you can open the back door and cut it on and the entire house is clear in a couple of minutes max.
On the terminology, technically these should be called whole house fans but they are typically and almost always referred to as attic fans. What are technically attic fans are generally referred to as gable and roof fans.
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Evan Atkinson
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Posted: Mon Jul 20th, 2009 08:09 am |
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Thanks Richard. That "vertical mount" whole house fan affair is interesting - not seen one like that. Also a fairly neat and tidy looking grill+louvers - smaller than normal. I'd think that would hinder the performance (being a narrower opening and all) but apparently not!
Ok, so all you whole house fan gurus, debate and give me your ideas:
Is a direct-drive whole house fan better than a belt driven model? Or vice versa? The one I have now is a direct drive - seems to work quite well, but what's better for efficiency, long-life, etc?
Here's a pic or two of the unit we have in the ceiling now:
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Rob Duffy
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Posted: Mon Jul 20th, 2009 08:19 am |
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Evan Atkinson wrote: Thanks Richard. That "vertical mount" whole house fan affair is interesting - not seen one like that. Also a fairly neat and tidy looking grill+louvers - smaller than normal. I'd think that would hinder the performance (being a narrower opening and all) but apparently not!
Ok, so all you whole house fan gurus, debate and give me your ideas:
Is a direct-drive whole house fan better than a belt driven model? Or vice versa? The one I have now is a direct drive - seems to work quite well, but what's better for efficiency, long-life, etc?
Here's a pic or two of the unit we have in the ceiling now:
I have actually heard good things about that specific model. I believe they are made by Emerson.
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Mark Allen
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Posted: Mon Jul 20th, 2009 12:44 pm |
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| Evan, don't know if you know this but your fan was made for Sears by Emerson and was a very good fan for a direct drive. Does yours have the variable speed control on the wall?
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Evan Atkinson
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Posted: Mon Jul 20th, 2009 10:46 pm |
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Mark-
Yes, it has a new wall-mounted speed control, giving an infinite number of speeds. Just had to have the original 1970's infinite speed control replaced because it finally burned out.
How in the world did you guys know this was made by Emerson? There's nothing on this to indicate that. Unless you know the model number...
So what's good about this one?
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Duane Burright
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Posted: Tue Jul 21st, 2009 02:04 am |
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Evan Atkinson wrote: Is a direct-drive whole house fan better than a belt driven model? Or vice versa? The one I have now is a direct drive - seems to work quite well, but what's better for efficiency, long-life, etc.
From what I understand the large belt drive units are better due to their quiet operation, they achieve this through huge deep-pitched blades and low RPM run characteristics. I've seen one in operation and they're nearly silent, but pull a HUGE volume of air.
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Mark Allen
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Posted: Tue Jul 21st, 2009 03:01 am |
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Evan,
I remember when these were sold new Emerson and Sears. Emerson made a bunch of ceiling fans over the years that were branded Sears also. I have one just like yours out in the garage that I started building a wood box for it to use as a portable fan. I also have one installed in the house I purchased new thats a belt drive with the same blade as yours.
In answer to your question what makes these so good, you wont find a direct drive fan sold now with the deep pithed blades and a low rpm motor or the variable speed. I have a friend that just installed a new whole house fan and it sounds like an airplane and does not move any where near as much air thru the house as my Emerson does.
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Evan Atkinson
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Posted: Tue Sep 8th, 2009 07:18 pm |
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UPDATE:
I've just purchased my first place. Need to get an attic fan in there asap, as the central HVAC system on the house doesn't work and we won't be fixing it probably within the first year.
The roof on my new place is a "hipped" style roof. The attic space should have enough cubic space for a "whole house" fan, but nothing like the high gabled roof of my last place.
The only vents in the roof are two turbine Whirlybird passive vents, and then, soffit vents lining the edge of the rafters at the wall junctions. There's quite a few of them; about every other ceiling joist there's a soffit vent. No dormer vents or gable vents further up on the roof. Pictures of the interior attic space to follow. Here's an exterior shot to give you an idea:
Question: will a whole house fan function correctly, given the description of my attic space I've just given you?
I'm concerned about the lack of higher-up venting on the roof. The two turbine vents are good, but there's only two of them for a large (spread out) attic space. Once I insulate the attic with fiberglass insulation, the batting will run close to the edge of the wall, and I'll have to compress and staple the batting down so as not to cover the soffit vents.
But we've GOT to get an attic fan in there: the CA summer heat in the valley is just murderous right now and the house stays hot until the late evening hours.
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Chuck Abernathy
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Posted: Tue Sep 8th, 2009 08:22 pm |
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Hi, Evan! Take a look at Home Depot or Lowes for styrofoam?? eave vent kits that prevent the blown or batt insulation from plugging up the vent space to your eaves. They are made of the same plastic stuff that egg crates are made of.
They are about 3 feet long and about 14" wide and have a vent space that holds the insulation about 1 1/2" away from the roof sheathing. Install one piece between each set of rafters, down where thye rafters ara attached to the plate, regardless of where the eave vents happen to be located in the soffett. We use these all the time on Habitat for Humanity houses; they work great!
I grew up sleeping with my window cracked about 3" and a whole house fan pulling humid Texas air across my bed! It doesn't sound so great now, with A/C, but then it was heaven! Our house had a hip roof, sorta like yours...don't see why an attic fan won;t work just fine at your new place!
Good luck! Chuck
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Evan Atkinson
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Posted: Tue Sep 8th, 2009 08:30 pm |
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Thanks Chuck! Glad to know about those soffit vent eave kits. I'll go check 'em out. Now for the right kind of whole house fan. Hmmm....
Gosh, being into antique fans, of course I want an antique, good-looking whole house fan with a fancy, curly, ornate attic opening and a brass-bladed blade. Does such an old thing exist?
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Chuck Abernathy
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Posted: Tue Sep 8th, 2009 08:49 pm |
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| Ours looked a lot like yours, but was belt-driven. It had wooden louvers. Have not seen any with ornate anything! Maybe you could use a large ventilator, but I think 16" is about the largest of those I've seen. Jack Johnston had a monster Emerson with adjustable brass blades at FF, but I'm not sure your framing could stand the weight!
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Duane Burright
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Posted: Tue Sep 8th, 2009 08:49 pm |
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Evan Atkinson wrote: Gosh, being into antique fans, of course I want an antique, good-looking whole house fan with a fancy, curly, ornate attic opening and a brass-bladed blade. Does such an old thing exist?
The ornate opening, maybe. Exhaust fans really were rather utilitarian, and whole-house fans came into being in maybe the late 40's.
Your best bet would be a vintage belt driven unit in the local area. I think those are still made, it's just a matter of finding one made in the U.S. that is serviceable (no Asian junk).
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Evan Atkinson
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Posted: Tue Sep 8th, 2009 11:01 pm |
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A "vintage" belt drive unit Duane? That's interesting...not heard of those before. What do they look like? I'm assuming you mean in ceiling, not in the window...
Now HERE's an idea...oooo....I like this idea:
I've always liked those large 24" Vortalex circulators, but never had the space to use one. I could get really creative, and construct a custom 1940's art-deco style ceiling grate in the same general look/fashion as the grate on the circulator. Maybe I could even use the actual grate with some modifications. THEN, I could create a metal ceiling brace-structure, on which I could mount a large antique motor...either direct drive, or more probably belt-drive. And FINALLY, I could use one of those awesome 24" Vortalex Circulator blades.
The thing could be mounted on a motor blowing upward, or if I somehow could do it, maybe I could mount it facing downward on a belt-driven pully, but somehow reverse the motor so it was pulling the air up instead of pushing it. The only thing left I would need to think about is louvers. Maybe I could construct the whole thing in a large wooden box with the spring-loaded louver opening behind the motor instead of in front of the blade, that way I get to stare upward at a pretty GE vortalex circulator blade.
What do y'all think of this idea?? Seems like something maybe GE might have come up with!!
Steve?? Where's your 1930's-1940's GE literature??
Last edited on Tue Sep 8th, 2009 11:04 pm by Evan Atkinson
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Duane Burright
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Posted: Tue Sep 8th, 2009 11:32 pm |
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Evan Atkinson wrote: A "vintage" belt drive unit Duane? That's interesting...not heard of those before. What do they look like? I'm assuming you mean in ceiling, not in the window...
They've been spoken of above by all the other guys. I'd take a look on CraigsList.
Here's a vintage belt drive whole house fan that would have likely been attic mounted with ceiling louvers concealing it, think the unit in your old place but bigger. This is Jay Bernard's, he made it into a shop fan - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbkPCDI3sQ0
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Nicholas Denney
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Posted: Tue Sep 8th, 2009 11:34 pm |
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How about cutting a large, round hole in the ceiling and suspending a Fanimation Brewmaster thru it, mounting it from the ceiling above? 
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Duane Burright
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| Joined: | Tue Nov 15th, 2005 |
| Location: | Malibu, California USA |
| Posts: | 1831 |
| Favorite Fan: | Signal Model # 1249 Cool Spot from 1954 |
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Posted: Tue Sep 8th, 2009 11:37 pm |
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Evan Atkinson wrote: Now HERE's an idea...oooo....I like this idea:
I've always liked those large 24" Vortalex circulators, but never had the space to use one. I could get really creative, and construct a custom 1940's art-deco style ceiling grate in the same general look/fashion as the grate on the circulator. Maybe I could even use the actual grate with some modifications. THEN, I could create a metal ceiling brace-structure, on which I could mount a large antique motor...either direct drive, or more probably belt-drive. And FINALLY, I could use one of those awesome 24" Vortalex Circulator blades.
The thing could be mounted on a motor blowing upward, or if I somehow could do it, maybe I could mount it facing downward on a belt-driven pully, but somehow reverse the motor so it was pulling the air up instead of pushing it. The only thing left I would need to think about is louvers. Maybe I could construct the whole thing in a large wooden box with the spring-loaded louver opening behind the motor instead of in front of the blade, that way I get to stare upward at a pretty GE vortalex circulator blade.
What do y'all think of this idea?? Seems like something maybe GE might have come up with!!
Steve?? Where's your 1930's-1940's GE literature??
I'd do an ILG myself. Get a 36 or 42 incher.
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Nicholas Denney
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| Joined: | Thu Aug 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Morgantown, Pennsylvania USA |
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Posted: Tue Sep 8th, 2009 11:39 pm |
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| Can the bearings tolerate a horizontal mount? I thought about an early pancake motor ILG, but I don't know how the bearings are in them...
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Evan Atkinson
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| Joined: | Tue Apr 18th, 2006 |
| Location: | Los Angeles, California USA |
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| Favorite Fan: | Backus ceiling fans 1890's |
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Posted: Tue Sep 8th, 2009 11:42 pm |
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Yeah, I'm seeing ILG may be a way to go as well. But I sure like the Vortalex blade. Would fit right in with the style of the house (circa 1946).
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Duane Burright
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| Joined: | Tue Nov 15th, 2005 |
| Location: | Malibu, California USA |
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Posted: Tue Sep 8th, 2009 11:43 pm |
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Nicholas Denney wrote: Can the bearings tolerate a horizontal mount? I thought about an early pancake motor ILG, but I don't know how the bearings are in them...
If not it'd be easy to make a mini-penthouse type of structure in the attic so that the fan would mount vertically.
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Evan Atkinson
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| Joined: | Tue Apr 18th, 2006 |
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Posted: Tue Sep 8th, 2009 11:45 pm |
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Ahh, but then you'd not get to look at the beauty from down below. I'm thinking any fan not designed to be mounted horizontally (probably the majority of these old exhaust/circulator fans) would require construction of a special bearing/frame.
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Duane Burright
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| Joined: | Tue Nov 15th, 2005 |
| Location: | Malibu, California USA |
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Posted: Tue Sep 8th, 2009 11:46 pm |
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Evan Atkinson wrote: Yeah, I'm seeing ILG may be a way to go as well. But I sure like the Vortalex blade. Would fit right in with the style of the house (circa 1946).
You could get a 1946 vintage ILG, those pointy blades are just soooo wicked. Plus these fans are purpose built ventilators (that's the brand pedigree), meant to run for many decades without being serviced.
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