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Simon Cutting
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Posted: Mon Jul 20th, 2009 01:51 pm |
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I attach a scan of a 1928-1929 Indochina edition of a supplier, Descours & Cabaud to French Indochina. It is unfortunately a scan of a very bad photocopy. In it, several Marelli’s are advertised. There seems to be three basic versions, “Portaties” (Eng: portables), the doubled-headed “Specials” and the “Genteur’s” that had nickel-plated cages, blades and black bodies.
All of the models appear to have pancake heads and either a circular base or a base with 3 protruding holes for wall or table attachment (or for grommet feet). This immediately makes it apparent that an old Marelli cannot be accurately dated simply by its base since, as late as 1929, at least 2 versions were being made. The same is true for the shape of the fan blade since the photos show two types of fan blade. A rounded cage blade (Portables and Specials) and a more square-ended blade (Genteur),
The square-ended blades and the base carrying the 3-pronged base have been cited as indicating an early Marelli, (1903-1920). It could be argued that old photos might be used but it seems highly unlikely that >10 year-old photos were being used in a current catalogue.
A further point is that the Genteur models carried nickel cages and blades and had black bodies. This might imply that the more standard models (Portables) may have come in a variety of colours and presumably carried painted or brass cages/blades.
Finally, for anyone who doubts that the double-headed or partners fans did not exist, the pictures are clear proof that such fans were made.
In sum, this catalogue must surely complicate the problem of dating Marellis and all that can be said is that if you have a fan similar to those shown and with the features mentioned above and below then it is likely to be pre-1930, but also that it may not be as old as you think.
Ventilateurs Portaties “Marelli”
Fixed head:
Type "Tropicale" continuous current
Type "Bareale" direct current
(ne, one is shown on te Art & Industry site)
Inclinable:
Type "Euro" continuous current
Type "Noto" direct current
Oscillating:
Type "Nordico" continuous current
Type "Occnso" direct current
Ventilateurs Speciaux “Marelli”
• Fixed double headed partners
• Inclinable double-headed partners
• Oscillating double-headed oscillating
Ventilateurs de Table “Genteur”
Two models. Type “Genteur” with fixed and inclinable versions. The legend to the advert clearly states that the cage and blades are in nickel and the body black. Both versions in alternative current only. Note shape of blades and base with three protruding screw holes.Attachment: Desc & Cab Marellis.pdf (Downloaded 46 times)
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Terry Fisher
AFCA Member
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Posted: Mon Jul 20th, 2009 04:13 pm |
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Simon..................
Thanks for the Marelli information and catalog pics.
Perhaps you can help with years of manufacture for these Marelli fans.
First is a ceiling fan.
Attached Image (viewed 417 times):
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Terry Fisher
AFCA Member
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Posted: Mon Jul 20th, 2009 04:13 pm |
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| Second is this one............ Attached Image (viewed 410 times):
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Terry Fisher
AFCA Member
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Posted: Mon Jul 20th, 2009 04:14 pm |
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Here is the motor tag.
Attached Image (viewed 411 times):
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Romain Tutin
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Posted: Mon Jul 20th, 2009 04:28 pm |
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http://www.fondazioneisec.it/marelli/archivio/imggallery.php?id_categoria=3&id_sottocategoria=27 http://www.fondazioneisec.it/marelli/index.htm
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Romain Tutin
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Posted: Mon Jul 20th, 2009 04:40 pm |
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Simon Cutting
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Posted: Mon Jul 20th, 2009 05:43 pm |
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The second fan looks similar to the one attached in shape and design. The attached (Marelli) fan has been doctored in some way (cage newer and oscillator housing, possibly) but the exposed gearing suggests a very early attempt at making an oscillator so perhaps before the 1920 when they started to produce the more elegant Delio model and variations of . The ceiling fan also has the similar motor head so I would guess it must be pre-1920s for the same reasoning.
The partners fan of Romain's has the characteristic asymmetric blade of the late 1920s-early 1930s and agree well with the archival images.Attached Image (viewed 396 times):
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Simon Cutting
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Posted: Mon Jul 20th, 2009 05:48 pm |
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| An interesting Delio 1920s model attached Attached Image (viewed 387 times):
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Simon Cutting
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Posted: Mon Jul 20th, 2009 06:09 pm |
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| Some pictures of early Marellis presented properly Attachment: Early Marellis.pdf (Downloaded 65 times)
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Simon Cutting
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Posted: Mon Jul 20th, 2009 06:18 pm |
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| The Descours & Cabaud catalogues are occasionally available in France (via out of print book sites such as Priceminster, http://www.abebooks.com and even E-bay). Unfortunately, I dont speak French and dont have the confidence to buy unseen, but if you are able to purchase one I would be interested in getting copies
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Terry Fisher
AFCA Member
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Posted: Mon Jul 20th, 2009 08:28 pm |
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Simon.................
You stated some Marelli fans are not as old as they look.
The catalog picture of the ceiling fan states:
Autore: Ufficio fotografico Ercole Marelli
Periodo: 1926
Is that the year of manufacture or the year the picture was taken?...... since you mentioned " the exposed gearing suggests a very early attempt at making an oscillator so perhaps before the 1920 when they started to produce the more elegant Delio model and variations of . The ceiling fan also has the similar motor head so I would guess it must be pre-1920s for the same reasoning."
The partners fan of Romain's has the characteristic asymmetric blade of the late 1920s-early 1930s and agree well with the archival images.
Also...........that is a great tab base oscillator with the exposed gear. How much is the oscillating arc adjustible with that knob? I assume from zero arc to almost 360 degrees?
Last edited on Mon Jul 20th, 2009 08:29 pm by Terry Fisher
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Simon Cutting
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Posted: Mon Jul 20th, 2009 10:31 pm |
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Terry
I agree with the point you mention about when was the picture taken. Assuming design is always an improvement (subjective opinion) then the more aesthetically pleasing Marellis always came later. The Marelli archives in Romain's link are curious because they show a variety of models with different and overlapping dates, also with asymmetrically bladed and round blades of the same era. The earliest picture of the Delio is I think ~1926 and perhaps this was the moment when there was a change in design to the pancake head and ball headed motors. This is pure speculation of course but proof would come from a catalogue of earlier date showing a specific design. There were 2 or 3 factories producing Marellis (Paris, Milan and somewhere in Germany) plus those in SE Asia and I wonder whether they produced different variations on a theme.
I have seen one the 360 degree partners fans before before and it belongs to a later design period characterised by the absence of oilers/asymmetric blades etc
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Romain Tutin
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Posted: Mon Jul 20th, 2009 11:16 pm |
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there are some errors on the link Marelli Archives !!! but
the Marelli fans are dated
on the base or on the tag !!! mine are all dated the 2 first numbers are year of fabrication  this this double headed model is dated 1933
I also have two small délio marelli fan 1922 and 1927
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Romain Tutin
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Posted: Mon Jul 20th, 2009 11:24 pm |
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Richard Larson
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Posted: Tue Jul 21st, 2009 01:48 pm |
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I may have a little more insight. The guy considered to be the AFCA Marelli expert Alberto Noti is not often around but he told me my smallest one is from between 1904 and 1906. He has a collection of catalogs. I'll follow this post with some PDF files of patents and other images for your enjoyment as well. The more we can collectively dig up the more accurate we can get on these.
This first is what Alberto told me is a 1905 to 1906 model I have. There is no tag on the fan itself just the voltage 220 and the code CC.
and the bottom - typical of Marelli's that I've seen
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Richard Larson
AFCA Member
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Posted: Tue Jul 21st, 2009 01:59 pm |
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This one is a 360 degree ceiling oscillator I have - in need of restoration. I dont have good shots of the tag on this one or the next one right now.
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Richard Larson
AFCA Member
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Posted: Tue Jul 21st, 2009 02:06 pm |
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Finally this is my neck collar oscillator. From looking at patents this is their later neck oscillator design. This one is in sore need of restoration and it's in storage so these are the only photos I have for now. The oscillator for this model was patented in 1919 so I'd assume it's a 1919 or later model although I suppose it's also very possible they were producing this model before the patent actually got approved and filed. Maybe it was made as "patent pending" for some time....
and the typical base - this one showing the voltage 220, cycles 50, and the code C.A.
Last edited on Tue Jul 21st, 2009 02:26 pm by Richard Larson
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Simon Cutting
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Posted: Tue Jul 21st, 2009 02:09 pm |
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Dear Richard
I have exactly this model but with a fixed head
it is early
when I stripped the paint it had the numbers 06 stamped into the iron close
to the junction with the trunnion
repainted it is barely detectable
I would assume 1906
Simon
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Richard Larson
AFCA Member
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Posted: Tue Jul 21st, 2009 02:18 pm |
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Now a couple of catalog pages I have - unfortunatley this is as good as they are for the files I have. I have no idea of the catalog, dates, or even what the pages say. lol
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Richard Larson
AFCA Member
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Posted: Tue Jul 21st, 2009 02:23 pm |
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| Here is a 1915 patent of the earlier style neck oscillator. Attached PDF. Attachment: US1138390.pdf (Downloaded 33 times)
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Richard Larson
AFCA Member
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Posted: Tue Jul 21st, 2009 02:24 pm |
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and finally here is a 1919 patent of the more common style neck oscillator. Attached PDF.
Attachment: US1291988.pdf (Downloaded 57 times)
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Terry Fisher
AFCA Member
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Posted: Tue Jul 21st, 2009 04:28 pm |
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Richard..............
Thanks for all the outstanding Marelli information and pictures.
I have finished restoring the Marelli ceiling fan model and will post pictures when I get it hung. That one turned out to be a great looking fan. The install will have to wait until after fan fair.
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Terry Fisher
AFCA Member
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Posted: Tue Jul 21st, 2009 04:40 pm |
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By the way.......................are there any references in the catalogs to the CA and CC on the bottom of those fans.
Last edited on Tue Jul 21st, 2009 04:42 pm by Terry Fisher
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Richard Larson
AFCA Member
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Posted: Tue Jul 21st, 2009 05:18 pm |
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Not that I have seen Terry..... I'm clueless as to what the letters on the bottoms are. My ceiling one is actually in Kim Franks capable hands to get a full going over. It's going to be a bit before he gets to it but it will be well worth the wait. 
Also - this is it in my shop running wonderfully on 240v before I handed it over to Kim. In the video it does not have the cage on it as I was still testing it and had just hung it but I do have the cage for it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkX2F9lqSIY
Last edited on Tue Jul 21st, 2009 05:20 pm by Richard Larson
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Terry Fisher
AFCA Member
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Posted: Tue Jul 21st, 2009 06:59 pm |
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Richard..............
I'm looking forward to seeing that Marelli 360 completed. Especially since Kim is doing it. Are you going back with it original color or will Kim change this one using his maginifco-luminace colors?
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Richard Larson
AFCA Member
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Posted: Tue Jul 21st, 2009 07:26 pm |
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Honestly I'm not even sure yet. It's been poorly spray painted during it's life - the silver in the photos I showed is not original. In some places the silver will scrape off with your fingernail - I'm not sure they bothered to clean it first.... The original color underneath it black. While I like originality on very rare fans I'm thinking on changing it up anyways. I think I told Kim to just go for it and shoot it with whatever he thought might be cool. 
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Trả lại tên cho em
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Posted: Fri Oct 9th, 2009 07:26 pm |
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Thank you
Romain Tutin
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Romain Tutin
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Posted: Fri Oct 9th, 2009 08:54 pm |
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Trả lại tên cho em wrote: Thank you
Romain Tutin
http://www.lombardiabeniculturali.it/fotografie/soggetti/439/ http://www.lombardiabeniculturali.it/fotografie/soggetti/441/?sort=data_from_date http://www.lombardiabeniculturali.it/fotografie/soggetti/440/ http://www.lombardiabeniculturali.it/fotografie/autori/7867/ MARELLI (italian link)
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John McComas
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Posted: Sat Oct 10th, 2009 03:54 am |
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Terry Fisher wrote: Richard..............
I'm looking forward to seeing that Marelli 360 completed. Especially since Kim is doing it. Are you going back with it original color or will Kim change this one using his maginifco-luminace colors?
Richard, you may want to make sure Kim's cupboard is low on booze first before you
have him paint it....
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Paul Pierson
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Posted: Sat Oct 10th, 2009 05:24 am |
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Terry Fisher wrote: By the way.......................are there any references in the catalogs to the CA and CC on the bottom of those fans.
i am fairly certain the designations CA and CC refer to the type of current......
CC= Current Continuous (DC)
CA= Current Alternating (AC)
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Trả lại tên cho em
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Posted: Mon Oct 12th, 2009 02:26 pm |
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Dear friends
I come from Vietnam, I am very old fan favorite,
My collection of milk, there are many fans Marelli
Type voltage 110 and 220 capital capital
but no one believe me.
In my country in, I said a fan used Marelli Voltage 220 capital
To your forum, I saw the fan voltage Marelli 220 capital
I am very happy as someone sympathy.
Thank you for viewing and about Marelli fans.
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