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David Rodan
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Posted: Sun Aug 30th, 2009 02:27 am |
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Hi everyone, first post here!
I recently acquired 2 westinghouse fan (well, 3, but one arrived DOA). I'd like to take them apart the clean and lube them properly, but I can only get so far in the disassembly before I'm stumped/too cautious to do attempt any more. One is a 315745A, the other is a 1361357 (10PA), can any one point me in the right direction?
Actually, if there's a general method, that would be great, as I also have a GE Vortalex, a older GE (age/model unknown, but it has brass blades), and an Emerson 27666 that will need service at some point, probably over the winter. Anything with pics would be appreciated, as I'm not familiar with terminology and up this point have only worked on a Lau box fan.
Thanks in advance,
david
Last edited on Sun Aug 30th, 2009 03:43 am by David Rodan
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Nicholas Denney
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Posted: Sun Aug 30th, 2009 02:41 am |
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David, it sounds like you have some nice fans (especially the 27666  ) but I don't know where to start if you don't tell me what you've already done! 
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David Rodan
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Posted: Sun Aug 30th, 2009 03:07 am |
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Good point. On the Power-Aire, I was able to remove the back cover, open up the oscillator gear box and oil it, brush out the dust in there, and oil the front port. It appears you have to disassemble the oscillator linkage to remove the front cover/cage/blade, but wasn't entirely sure. It runs quiet and cool and coasts nicely, but I would still like to dust the front part.
For the 315745A, I wasn't able to do much. I removed the cage and struts, wiped them and the blades down, cleaned and oiled the front oiler. It appear that the front motor housing should be loose once the strut mount bolts were removed, but a few light taps against the holes did nothing, so I didn't push the matter further. I unscrewed the largest three caps/screws on the oscillator housing, but didn't do more as they didn't reveal much of the surface. Does this fan require some force to deactivate the oscillator? On the one that didn't make it (517723B) it appears to have some sort of ball-bearing catch, but that's where it's broken (hence how i can see it), but i'm not trying anything until I'm sure.
I haven't gotten the 27666 yet, but I'm pretty psyched about it, although it could use a refinishing and the blades smoothed out a bit. Fan are a bit new to me, and I've reach saturation for the moment, but they're fun. I'm also into vintage audio equipment, and there's definitely a parallel in that the older stuff has a much higher build quality.
Last edited on Sun Aug 30th, 2009 03:42 am by David Rodan
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Nicholas Denney
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Posted: Sun Aug 30th, 2009 03:18 am |
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David Rodan wrote: For the 315745A, I wasn't able to do much. I removed the cage and struts, wiped them and the blades down, cleaned and oiled the front oiler. It appear that the front motor housing should be loose once the strut mount bolts were removed, but a few light taps against the holes did nothing, so I didn't push the matter further. I unscrewed the largest three caps/screws on the oscillator housing, but didn't do more as they didn't reveal much of the surface. Does this fan require some force to deactivate the oscillator? On the one that didn't make it (517723B) it appears to have some sort of ball-bearing catch, but that's where it's broken (hence how i can see it), but i'm not trying anything until I'm sure.
The stamped steel Westinghouse fans (what your 315745 is) are the worst possible fans for disassembly in general. The stator is made to fit without tolerance inside of its stamped steel shell and it is not very forgiving. There is an easy way to remove the front cover but I do not want you to do it until I know your fan does not have a centrifugal start switch....
I actually have most of the fans that you do, with exception of the 27666. Mine is a later 71666, in factory cream.
Attached Image (viewed 621 times):
 Last edited on Sun Aug 30th, 2009 03:29 am by Nicholas Denney
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David Rodan
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Posted: Sun Aug 30th, 2009 03:40 am |
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Very nice! Is that one with the brass blades and green base a GE? It look looks very similar to my (well, girlfriend's) unidentified GE. Someone painted everything over, so I can't read the plate, yet.
So how do i tell if it has a centrifugal start switch? This may not be a high priority fan, the front oiler was gummy, but the back ports appeared pretty fresh, and it starts/stop pretty smoothly. Would I be better off starting on something a little easier? Once the insurance claim goes through on the 517723B, I could use that for practice, if it's similar enough.
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David Rodan
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Posted: Sun Aug 30th, 2009 03:45 am |
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Attached is my sob story, FWIW...
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Ron Powell
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Posted: Sun Aug 30th, 2009 04:05 am |
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David, This can be repaired. If your going to repaint and have the knowledge to do so, this shouldn't be too much of a problem that you can't repair yourself. You can use J-B Weld, I know it sounds pretty silly but, it will work great. Just remove the gears and clean ALL the grease and oil out with a degreaser or lacquer thinner. J-B weld it back together using plenty to make sure it adheres and when dry use a Dremel tool to reshape the inside of the gearbox so no J-B Weld will interfere with the gears. Sand the outside smooth, prime and repaint. Easy Peasy Japannesey!
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David Rodan
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Posted: Sun Aug 30th, 2009 04:14 am |
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Hey, that's good to know! I had a thought of using 2-stage epoxy of some sort, but I didn't think it would stand up. Hopefully i have enough pieces left to get it going again!
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Nicholas Denney
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Posted: Sun Aug 30th, 2009 05:15 am |
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David Rodan wrote: Attached is my sob story, FWIW...
Am I correct in guessing that your fan is 10"? (and not 12" like I originally thought!)
I was going to suggest that you TAP the motor shaft head-on with a hammer while holding the front motor housing to remove it, but after seeing the oscillator gearbox, I think that would only be adding insult to injury. 
On the upside, these fans are very common and aren't hard to come by. You should have no trouble locating a junker fan with a good oscillator, if you choose to go that route.
I actually love the smaller mikarta blade fans so I'm just a bit jealous.
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Russ Huber
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Posted: Sun Aug 30th, 2009 05:44 am |
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I think I have a simple approach to removing the Westy stamp steel stators. I have seen and read various methods in the fan collector and on posts. The method I see in my mind appears very simple...however, not been there done that. Westinghouse engineer Christian Aalborg is responsible for the oscillating mechanism. In my opinion Christian was thinking....to much. 
Pssssst....A WW11 Tiger against a Sherman from a technological standpoint?  However, which would I stand a better chance in repairing in the field? By the way....the Gerrys lost the war.
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David Rodan
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Posted: Sun Aug 30th, 2009 01:57 pm |
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Nicholas Denney wroteAm I correct in guessing that your fan is 10"? (and not 12" like I originally thought!)
I was going to suggest that you TAP the motor shaft head-on with a hammer while holding the front motor housing to remove it, but after seeing the oscillator gearbox, I think that would only be adding insult to injury.
I have one of each, the broken one is the 10" model.
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Steve Sherwood
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Posted: Sun Aug 30th, 2009 02:16 pm |
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Russ Huber wrote: I think I have a simple approach to removing the Westy stamp steel stators. I have seen and read various methods in the fan collector and on posts. The method I see in my mind appears very simple...however, not been there done that. Westinghouse engineer Christian Aalborg is responsible for the oscillating mechanism. In my opinion Christian was thinking....to much.
Pssssst....A WW11 Tiger against a Sherman from a technological standpoint? However, which would I stand a better chance in repairing in the field? By the way....the Gerrys lost the war.
Russ
Please share your "simple mind approach" for removing stamped steel motors. My experience has been it not hard to get it out but putting it back in and getting it aligned is the hard part. PLEASE HELP THE SIMPLE MINDS.
Don't you forget about me.  Simple Minds 1984
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Russ Huber
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Posted: Sun Aug 30th, 2009 02:47 pm |
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Steve Sherwood wrote: Russ Huber wrote: I think I have a simple approach to removing the Westy stamp steel stators. I have seen and read various methods in the fan collector and on posts. The method I see in my mind appears very simple...however, not been there done that. Westinghouse engineer Christian Aalborg is responsible for the oscillating mechanism. In my opinion Christian was thinking....to much.
Pssssst....A WW11 Tiger against a Sherman from a technological standpoint? However, which would I stand a better chance in repairing in the field? By the way....the Gerrys lost the war.
Russ
Please share your "simple mind approach" for removing stamped steel motors. My experience has been it not hard to get it out but putting it back in and getting it aligned is the hard part. PLEASE HELP THE SIMPLE MINDS.
Don't you forget about me. Simple Minds 1984
At ease dude. There is nothing in my post stating anything about someone's.... "simple" mind. I did state I invision an idea... ....however, I also stated I have not been there done that... yet. So....when I've been there done that...and its cool...I'll share. 
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John Fengel
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Posted: Sun Aug 30th, 2009 03:01 pm |
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My experience has been it not hard to get it out but putting it back in and getting it aligned is the hard part
Steve,
I'm not sure there is an easy way to get them out. What I normally do is use a small hardened Drift Punch inserted through the Housing screw holes at an angle away from the Stator threaded holes. Mount the Housing on a couple of blocks of wood and start tapping away. Sometimes a little heat, especially on the GE's, helps soften the old varnish and rust.
To reinstall them, I use a 1-1/2" Drum Sander mounted in my drill press to remove a very small amount of metal until the Stator will start but is still a "snug" fit. I also clean the outside of Stator laminations removing any old varnish, rust and rough spots. Then I spread a thin film of Vaseline on the walls of the housing, line up the Stator holes and start it into the housing. Normally it will only go in a short distance by hand then I will tap it in with a wooden dowel and brass hammer being careful to not touch the Stator windings. When it's almost to the stops in the housing, I use the screws to tighten it the rest of the way. IF the screw holes are not quite aligned, I use an awl through the screw holes to align them. It seems to work for me.
I've ruined more than one housing trying to beat them out with a PVC pipe. Now, I don't even try that method on Stamped Housings because most of the time it doesn't work.
John
Last edited on Sun Aug 30th, 2009 03:02 pm by John Fengel
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Steve Sherwood
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Posted: Sun Aug 30th, 2009 04:08 pm |
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John
I have taken this motor out and installed them. I do not work on stamped steel fans as a rule. I was just trying to have a little fun with "Old Rusty."
Steve
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Russ Huber
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Posted: Sun Aug 30th, 2009 06:11 pm |
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Someone should of slipped some cyanide into Aalborg's morning coffee around 05 and did the rest of us a favor. Now...can it be done?....time will tell. 
http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=GK9UAAAAEBAJ&dq=1107241
http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=_0teAAAAEBAJ&dq=1241599
http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=gBBeAAAAEBAJ&dq=1222512
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David Rodan
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Posted: Sun Aug 30th, 2009 07:53 pm |
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Okay, sounds like I wasn't too far off the mark with what I started to do, but maybe I'll wait for some more input before i give it a go.
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Steve Sherwood
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Posted: Sun Aug 30th, 2009 08:57 pm |
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Here is the deal. Taking a motor out of a stamped steel fan is not easy, it can be done but I would not recommend it. Most likely you will bend the motor housing and that's not good. I would work on the Emerson. It is by far a better than a stamped steel Westy. Much easier to work on.
Steve Sherwood
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Duane Burright
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Posted: Mon Aug 31st, 2009 01:54 am |
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One of our members wrote an article in the club magazine on how he has successfully done this. Perhaps one of us could get in touch with him.
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Russ Huber
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Posted: Mon Aug 31st, 2009 05:18 am |
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Duane Burright wrote: One of our members wrote an article in the club magazine on how he has successfully done this. Perhaps one of us could get in touch with him.
June 2005 Dan Morris pages 6-9. If memory serves me right I think Russ Petta posted a picture of a gizmo he used? Russ#1 did post this.......
"Anytime you use the pipe method on the westinghouse stamped steel housing, 99.999999% of the time you 'WILL', ever so slightly, bend the back part of the housing, causing distortion in the rotor alignment. The pipe method works well on the GE and Emerson's, not so much on the Westys. If it's a one time resto, the drilling of holes in the back and tapping it out would be your best option. If you do it more often and wan't to "ZIP" through the proscess, you can always make yourself a special tool for removal".~ Russell Petta
I took my new approach to my handy friend Steve. Steve gives a hoot about fans, but I know he likes the challenge. I told him how I see it could be done. He asked me to leave the motor housing/stator there. I've got him hooked dudes.  It might be a week or two.
Last edited on Mon Aug 31st, 2009 05:24 am by Russ Huber
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Russ Huber
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Posted: Sun Sep 13th, 2009 01:30 am |
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My buddy Steve called me a few days back and told me to pop over and check it out. We got together during the time of this post and I told him how I could see it done. Steve than did his magic and guess what...it works good. I used a heavy steel pole to bang that stator out with no signs of rear motor housing distortion. That rear motor housing is super reinforced with a rectangler 1/4" steel plate. Underneath that 1/4" steel plate is a 3/16-1/4" thick steel washer slightly larger the width of the rotor. Inside the housing Steve ground down yet another thick steel washer to fit the washer through the stator hole. He then used a 5/8" steel bolt and nut to secure the washers and and plate together. The steel plate has 5/16" threaded rods secured by nuts on both sides and at the other end of the rod there is a hardened steel clip frimly gripping the motor housing steel lip. Once all is secured...your ready to wack that stator out. I first tried a 2" diameter piece of PVC to knock out the stator. The PVC was not firm enough and the stator wouldn't budge. Then...I got serious with steel pipe on pavement and then she let her firm grip go....out it came.
This prototype needs really only one thing. The rectangular steel plate needs to have an open groove cut for both rods to have the ability to be adjusted and snugged to different motor housing diameters.
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 Last edited on Sun Sep 13th, 2009 04:27 am by Russ Huber
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Russ Huber
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Posted: Sun Sep 13th, 2009 01:31 am |
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Russ Huber
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Posted: Sun Sep 13th, 2009 01:32 am |
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Mark Hogan
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Posted: Sun Sep 13th, 2009 10:52 am |
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This is something I came up with a fews years back. Had the local machine shop knock out 4 or 5 of these, thinking I could move them. That went nowhere. It is not as secure of a way as Russ's friend Steve has but it has worked quite well for me so far. One nice aspect is that it is Self Centering so even pressure is applied and it will work on any size / diameter fan out there. The one pictured is just sitting there, not bolted in place.
Basically it's a Housing Pusher. Mount the plate to the Stator, start screwing down and when I reach the inside of the housing. I apply only a small amount of pressure, then using a rubber mallet or dead fall hammer. Tap around the housing, apply a little more pressure, tap around, apply a little more pressure and you'll know when it gives way. From there, just keep screwing down and it comes right out. The risk of deforming the housing is still there but I have yet to tweak one so baddly that it was ruined. Best way I've come up with so far. Those 12 & 16 inch Westys and R&M stamp steel housing are no fun to break apart, no matter what method you use.
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 Last edited on Sun Sep 13th, 2009 11:02 am by Mark Hogan
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John Koetting
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Posted: Thu Sep 24th, 2009 08:15 am |
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. Had the local machine shop knock out 4 or 5 of these, thinking I could move them. That went nowhere. still got em? ive got a 12" westy and a similarly made century that need fixed and this looks like about the best way to do it in my book.
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Peter Garcia
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Posted: Thu Sep 24th, 2009 10:14 am |
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Russ I have a question about this fan. I also have one just like it an took the stator out and put it back in but I don't know how to put that oscillating piece back on with out breaking the shaft that holds the motor to the base where it swivels again. I glued it but am afraid if theres unnecessary pressure added it would just break on me again. let me know if you need a picture of where I am.
Last edited on Thu Sep 24th, 2009 10:29 am by Peter Garcia
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Russ Huber
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Posted: Thu Sep 24th, 2009 04:41 pm |
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| Pete, sorry, I don't think gluing it is not going to float. You really need a replacement. Try the Buy-Sell-Trade.
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Mark Hogan
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Posted: Thu Sep 24th, 2009 07:32 pm |
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still got em? ive got a 12" westy and a similarly made century that need fixed and this looks like about the best way to do it in my book.
I DO, but a few memebers asking the same question have shyed away from my price, $50.00 shipped.
It short, $8.00 for the C-Clamp, $26.00 for the Steel Plate and Machine Work, $6.00 for the S.S. Hardware that's included and I'm covering the shipping. Not trying to make any kind of REAL profit here. Let me know if your still interested. A PM would be best.
Thanks Marc
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Peter Garcia
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Posted: Fri Sep 25th, 2009 11:15 pm |
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Russ Huber wrote:
  
hey David were you able to fix your fan yet? dont worry your not alone on a westy stamped steel fan, I cant get this one to budge a bit to re-wire it so it can work properly.
hey Russ can this idea work for my small Westy 8in? I tried to just slam it out with the pipe but I didnt want to warp the housing, or is there anyone I can send it to and the can remove it for me? I have a broken hear wire that doesnt give me exactly enough to put a new wire on and I know it works on 3 speeds but the wire just keeps comming off.
Last edited on Sat Sep 26th, 2009 03:24 am by Peter Garcia
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Adam Rohn
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Posted: Mon Oct 19th, 2009 01:41 am |
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David,
He's right, it really is that easy! I've used JB Weld before and its incredibly strong. Just be sure to use enough so that when you sand it down you won't see a crack line from where it busted off. I did that once and made the mistake of using too little, the break held up great without a problem, but you could still see the crack line from where it had broken
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David Rodan
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Posted: Tue Oct 20th, 2009 01:05 am |
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Hi Peter and Adam,
Thanks for the follow-up. I haven't fixed it, although I realize it probably isn't the hardest task. I took on too many fan projects at once, and have too many other thing to take care of. As the seller gave me a full refund, and I know there are others here who would gladly take this on, it's probably going to end up on the B-S-T section either for a nominal price or as trade bait.
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Adam Rohn
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Posted: Tue Oct 20th, 2009 01:21 am |
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| So, what your saying is that your method pushes the housing away from the stator instead of other methods where your pushing the stator out?
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Shawn Mitchell
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Posted: Thu Oct 22nd, 2009 06:52 pm |
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| I have a question? the red westie to the far right of the picture. I was just given a silverish-gold fan that looks just like it and it still works. Can anyone tell me about it?
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John Fengel
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Posted: Thu Oct 22nd, 2009 08:20 pm |
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I found this in a 1925 motor book I have. Thought I would scan a description of this Westinghouse Stator Removal Tool and post it.
John
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Ralph Bliss
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Posted: Thu Oct 22nd, 2009 08:58 pm |
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| John, thanks for posting this very clever tool! The expanding piston ring type concept is a great idea.
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