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Todd Mann
AFCA Member
| Joined: | Sat Feb 25th, 2006 |
| Location: | Wylie, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 409 |
| Favorite Fan: | my little zephyr |
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Posted: Sat Oct 10th, 2009 04:37 am |
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Hey Guys...i was working on this fan today and got a big surprise....a ton of windings...i remember Russ showed us a 6 pole a while back...but ive never ran across one of these...10 poles...115 V 125-140 cycles...full ribbed base stickmount...03....can you tell me anything about it? Thanks, Todd
Attached Image (viewed 382 times):
 Last edited on Sat Oct 10th, 2009 04:38 am by Todd Mann
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Russ Huber
AFCA Member
| Joined: | Mon Nov 14th, 2005 |
| Location: | Southwest, Wisconsin USA |
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Posted: Sat Oct 10th, 2009 05:45 am |
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Nice Todd. Psssst....the cycles...the poles.
http://afca.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=10555&forum_id=1&highlight=Tesla Last edited on Sat Oct 10th, 2009 05:46 am by Russ Huber
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Russ Huber
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| Joined: | Mon Nov 14th, 2005 |
| Location: | Southwest, Wisconsin USA |
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Posted: Sat Oct 10th, 2009 06:03 am |
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The form E5 6 pole 99 104 VAC 60 cycle I once had was a fine example of a residental 4 wing one speed. It came from Chicago and was well kept. Top speed of 1150 rpm?
Pssssst....Todd, my 05 MESCO catalog lists both the 12" and 16" model G.E. cakes in 125-140 cycles 100-115 VAC and 190-220 VAC. By the way...if you paid more than $32 for yours according to this catalog you got ripped off.  Last edited on Sat Oct 10th, 2009 06:15 am by Russ Huber
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Randy Rohr
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| Joined: | Sun Jun 8th, 2008 |
| Location: | Virginia USA |
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Posted: Sat Oct 10th, 2009 10:23 am |
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Todd,
Nice find. The only 10 pole I ever had was a Tesla- 16000 alts or 133 HZ. Syncronous speed would be ~812 rpm which should run about 725 rpm or so. I liked that speed for such a big fan especially if one could only have only one speed. Windings could be re-wired as a 4 or six pole. If heating becomes a problem you will need to lower the voltage.
Enjoy,
Randy Rohr
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Ron Powell
AFCA Member
| Joined: | Thu Mar 6th, 2008 |
| Location: | Lindale, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 1352 |
| Favorite Fan: | EMERSON LUNGER |
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Posted: Sat Oct 10th, 2009 02:08 pm |
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Todd, Nice Stick Mount, looks like you had the base Frankenized (Kim Frank). Is that the correct speed knob for it? I'm asking because I'm not familiar with this model pancake.
Last edited on Sat Oct 10th, 2009 02:10 pm by Ron Powell
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Ron Jeter
AFCA Member
| Joined: | Mon Nov 14th, 2005 |
| Location: | Kingsport TN, USA |
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Posted: Sat Oct 10th, 2009 05:17 pm |
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| Todd: Most 125-133 cycles have 8-10 poles -- attached is 133 cycle - 104 volt Tesla with 10 poles. Attached Image (viewed 292 times):
 Last edited on Sat Oct 10th, 2009 05:18 pm by Ron Jeter
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Kim Frank
AFCA Member
| Joined: | Tue Nov 15th, 2005 |
| Location: | Chiefland, Florida USA |
| Posts: | 780 |
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Posted: Sat Oct 10th, 2009 10:12 pm |
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Ron Powell wrote: looks like you had the base Frankenized (Kim Frank).
That base hasn't been Frankenized, it's been "Blinged out". This fella here just ordered a bunch of Bling and some cubic zirconium studs for a Tesla that he says is wayyyyy too dull looking......By the way Todd, that is an awesome fan. Correct knob is on its way, hopefully before Goodrich sees this.....Attached Image (viewed 269 times):
 Last edited on Sat Oct 10th, 2009 10:14 pm by Kim Frank
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Todd Mann
AFCA Member
| Joined: | Sat Feb 25th, 2006 |
| Location: | Wylie, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 409 |
| Favorite Fan: | my little zephyr |
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Posted: Sun Oct 11th, 2009 12:01 am |
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Thanks Guys...
after some splaining from Russ and Ron i understand whats going with the the way they built the motor...
I will have to watch for the heat build up like Randy mentioned...
i think i will paint this fan several colors and solder a Mercedes hood ornament to the top...thats what franks said to do anyway...i'll have to think about it...i better talk to Mr. Hoener...(sensei) he probably has a good idea too....
Thanks for the help...more to come on this one...
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Rick Hoener
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| Joined: | Wed Jun 11th, 2008 |
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Posted: Sun Oct 11th, 2009 12:09 am |
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| Todd, with an imagination like you have I cant see you having any problem coming up with a Masterpeice when your done. Rick.
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Bill Voigt
AFCA Member
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Posted: Mon Oct 12th, 2009 12:04 am |
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synchronous speed is proportional to the frequency and to one over
the # of poles.
So -
4 pole on 60 Hz (cycles) - 1800 rpm
4 pole on 125 cycles - 3750 rpm
4 pole on 133 cycles - 3990 rpm
8 pole on 133 cycles - 1995 rpm
10 pole on 133 cycles - 1596 rpm
10 pole on 125 cycles - 1500 rpm
Also, if the slip is about 11 percent,
giving about 1600 rpm for a 4 pole
60 cycle motor, then -
10 pole running speed - 1420 rpm at 133 cycles,
1335 rpm at 125 cycles
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Bill Voigt
AFCA Member
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Posted: Mon Oct 12th, 2009 12:45 am |
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Also -
flux density in the field and rotor iron goes UP proportional to voltage
and down proportional to frequency, so for normal heating the applied
voltage needs to go Down by whatever the ratio of the actual operating
frequency to the rated (nameplate) frequency.
However if the operating frequency is Higher than the nameplate frequency,
things are not as simple. IF you have a set of blades that require the same
torque as the original blades at the New Higher frequency synchronous speed
then you can raise applied voltage by the frequency ratio and have a working
fan. (The hoursepower from the motor and that used by the blades will
go up by the frequency ratio. )
IF you further reduce the blade pitch so that they require the same HORSEPOWER
as the originals did at the nameplate frequency, and raise applied voltage by the
square root of the frequency ratio, then the fan will deliver identical airflow
(but not identical noise) as it does with the nameplate voltage and frequency
input ( and original blades ).
For operation on lower than nameplate frequency, there is a "brickwall" limitation
set by the fraction operating frequency / nameplate frequency, which limits the
possible motor speed to less than the synchronous speed no matter what voltage
is applied. If modified blades can be gotten (made) that take the same torque
at the lower speed, somewhat more "breeze" can be obtained. However, for any
given motor, torque is proportional to current, so heating of the copper and
insulation is a firm limit. Rewinding is a possibilty for motors with distributed
(slot type) field iron, but the is No Way to turn a 10 pole shaded pole stator
into a 4 pole one.
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Russ Huber
AFCA Member
| Joined: | Mon Nov 14th, 2005 |
| Location: | Southwest, Wisconsin USA |
| Posts: | 4954 |
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Posted: Mon Oct 12th, 2009 12:47 am |
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Nice Bill...more poles on higher frequency changes the fan from a tasmanian devil.... to grandma's favorite family room breeze maker. 
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Todd Mann
AFCA Member
| Joined: | Sat Feb 25th, 2006 |
| Location: | Wylie, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 409 |
| Favorite Fan: | my little zephyr |
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Posted: Mon Oct 12th, 2009 03:43 am |
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Hey Bill...Excellent lesson...there is even good info in there about how the pitch on re built blades can affect the motor in ways i would not have thought of...you need to do an article on all this for the magazine since you explain it all so well...
thanks a lot!!
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Ron Powell
AFCA Member
| Joined: | Thu Mar 6th, 2008 |
| Location: | Lindale, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 1352 |
| Favorite Fan: | EMERSON LUNGER |
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Posted: Mon Oct 12th, 2009 09:41 pm |
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Bill, I'm sure most everyone here understands what you just said but, for the simple minded ones which I am not excluded from, would you mind repeating that in English?
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Trả lại tên cho em
Guest
| Joined: | Wed Apr 22nd, 2009 |
| Location: | Hà Nội, Việt Nam |
| Posts: | 24 |
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Posted: Tue Oct 13th, 2009 01:31 pm |
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Dear friends
I see you use very nice coating
I regularly participate in the forum for you
Polishing and smoothing
You restore the fan very carefully
Carefully and billion
To restore old fan
I learned a lot in your
Especially in Vietnam, I also paint your fans are as
Thank you USA
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Randy Rohr
AFCA Member
| Joined: | Sun Jun 8th, 2008 |
| Location: | Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 302 |
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Posted: Tue Oct 13th, 2009 06:22 pm |
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Todd,
Are you interested in running this fan at normal 4-pole speeds- 1600-1700rpm or 10-pole speeds 650-700rpm on 60Hz wall current?
If you want the former, I can trade you a 4-pole stator for your 10-pole and solve your problem.
Randy Rohr
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