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Barry Michaels
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Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 08:27 pm |
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I'm the proud owner of a Silver Swan and an Emerson 77646. I'm new to fan collecting and refurbishing, so am I to understand that 3-In-1 Oil is not what I should use on these beauties?
Thanks for your time and answers. It's good to be here.
Barry
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Terry Fisher
AFCA Member
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Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 09:18 pm |
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Use Zoom Spout Turbine Oil
..................... available at most hardware stores
Attached Image (viewed 360 times):
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Barry Michaels
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Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 09:51 pm |
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Thanks, Terry!
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Michael Roy
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Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 10:05 pm |
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| Or you can use 3 in 1 in the BLUE can. Just be sure you don't use the RED can. Motors do not like detergents....
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Ralph Bliss
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Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 10:13 pm |
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| 3 in 1 for Electric Motors Attached Image (viewed 347 times):
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Russ Huber
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Posted: Wed Nov 4th, 2009 12:47 am |
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This question gets asked so much it should be posted permanantly front row and center.  The fan manufacturers for most part recommended 20 weight non-detergent oil. So if your using petroleum or synthetic based lubricants....your still on the right track. If your using 3-In-1, turbine, compressor oil in the 20 weight give er take a tad area.....atta boy. 
I have a quart of some military instrument oil given to me with good intention so I would have a premium fan lubricant. I often wonder....is there such a lubricant?  Or, do we individually idealize what we perceive as .....the premium fan lubricant. Or....is a 20 weight non-detergent oil just simply....G.ood E.nough.
Psssssst.....I like the stink of 3-in-1....thus I use it. 
Last edited on Wed Nov 4th, 2009 03:16 am by Russ Huber
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Barry Michaels
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Posted: Wed Nov 4th, 2009 09:59 am |
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| Thanks for your help everyone. Russ, my Dad used 3-In-1 on everything, so I agree, in my case, it's a nice smell from my childhood.
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Steve Stephens
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Posted: Wed Nov 4th, 2009 04:57 pm |
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Barry Michaels wrote:
my Dad used 3-In-1 on everything, so I agree, in my case, it's a nice smell from my childhood.
I bet he used the regular (red can) 3-in-1 oil. Don't use that one; use the blue can motor oil. Funny, you like the smell, I won't use 3-in-1 because of the bad smell.
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Barry Michaels
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Posted: Wed Nov 4th, 2009 07:50 pm |
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Picked up the blue can today..
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Duane Burright
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Posted: Wed Nov 4th, 2009 08:48 pm |
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Barry Michaels wrote: Picked up the blue can today..
Excellent!
For now you can run 10 to 12 drops of oil into the 77646 AS fan's oil port, along with 6 drops into each oil port on the Swan. Note that the 77646 AS only has one oil port, which you will see in the top of the rear bullet cover.
Eventually you will want to take these fans apart to clean out the bearings and motors properly, as well as renew the grease in their gearboxes. Don't be daunted by the idea, these fans may seem a little complex but they're really simple once you see how they are built. We can help as well when you need it.
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Barry Michaels
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Posted: Wed Nov 4th, 2009 09:00 pm |
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Thanks, Duane. As for the oil, every three months or so? That seems to be what I've gleaned here. I realize it depends on usage too.
I know I'll need to replace the grease in their gearboxes, but so I might plan for the future, what type of grease? And, is it as simple as wiping out the old grease, and putting in the new?
It is their simplicity that appeals to me, and I admire these long gone engineers who built 'em to last. Plus, their STYLE.
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Duane Burright
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Posted: Wed Nov 4th, 2009 09:18 pm |
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Any good light duty general purpose grease will do it. I myself use LubriPlate white lithium grease. You don't want to use high temp or heavy duty grease, it's too thick and will strain your fan's motors.
As to cleaning, I usually disassemble the gearbox (note the locations of any fiber thrust washers) and use Brake Kleen or laquer thinner to clean everything. Then just coat the gear teeth and pinion bearings with fresh grease and re-assemble. Note that the gearbox doesn't need to be "packed full", just coat the gears and bearings and leave it at that.
HTH.
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Barry Michaels
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Posted: Wed Nov 4th, 2009 09:23 pm |
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Duane,
When I go into the front of the Swan, simply pop that cap off, clean it out, and re-pack?
Thanks!
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Duane Burright
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Posted: Wed Nov 4th, 2009 09:32 pm |
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Barry Michaels wrote: Duane,
When I go into the front of the Swan, simply pop that cap off, clean it out, and re-pack?
Thanks!
I've not worked on a Swan yet, but there are lotsa folks here who have. So I'll let them answer ya.
I'm pretty good with the 77646 fans though, I can take one of those apart in my sleep.
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Russ Huber
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Posted: Thu Nov 5th, 2009 12:59 am |
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| Barry, Everyone.... on this post is correct on a good quality oil for fan lubrication. Everyone.
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Rod Rogers
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 01:50 pm |
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Barry.....your avatar is a set of Koss Pro4A's? Brings back memories!
We went thru a LOT of those at radio stations back in the day. They were HEAVY and NOT cheap!
~Sparky~
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Barry Michaels
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 01:54 pm |
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Every ten or so years when they blow, my wife sends them back to the factory for a free replacement. They have a lifetime guarantee. I stil wear them today. Yeah, they're heavy, but they also 'isolate' you when you're on the air...that I like.
Thanks again to everyone who shared their info about oil. Nice to be here.
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Nick Rodnicki Jr
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Posted: Sun Nov 8th, 2009 03:55 am |
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Are we no longer allowed to talk about Royal Purple Synfilm ISO 68 and ISO 32 synthetic oils for fan motor bearing lubrication, as well as Royal Purple Max Tuff assembly lube? Five to ten years ago everyone swore by Royal Purple on the forum. I'm not saying Zoom Spout or 3 in 1 SAE 20 non-detergent are bad by any means, they are good too.
http://www.royal-purple-industrial.com/prodsi/sf.html
http://www.royalpurple.com/assembly-lube-o.html
I know there were some oil separation issues with the Royal Purple grease back around 2000-2002. To my knowledge those issues have been corrected.
Maybe I am biased because Royal Purple is made 20 miles from where I live.  I can say the coast time on my fans after power is disconnected is exponentially increased compared with other oils. Remember, synthetic oil molecules are round and spherical.
If anyone is interested in buying Royal Purple I'd be willing to buy a few cases and start distributing.
Nick
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Steve Stephens
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Posted: Sun Nov 8th, 2009 04:54 am |
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Nick Rodnicki Jr wrote:
Are we no longer allowed to talk about Royal Purple Synfilm ISO 68 and ISO 32 synthetic oils for fan motor bearing lubrication...?
I think the main problem with Royal Purple you mention is that it is not readily available. 10 years ago or so Scotty McClymonds was the AFCA president and was one who did recommend that lubricant and would buy cases to make available to members or whoever. I bought some but have ended up using Zoom-Spout which is pretty easy to fine and easier to use.
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John Fengel
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Posted: Sun Nov 8th, 2009 02:14 pm |
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When I go into the front of the Swan, simply pop that cap off, clean it out, and re-pack?
Barry,
When you go into that Silver Swan, Blade removal is the same as most Emerson's. Lock the Rotor and unscrew the Blade. Inside the blade you will find a glob of "something". Do not disturb or remove it as it helps balance the Blade. Make sure you ID your wires before disconnecting.
John
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Nick Rodnicki Jr
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Posted: Sun Nov 8th, 2009 02:51 pm |
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John, you awake yet?? I think you posted on the wrong thread.
Nick
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Russ Huber
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Posted: Sun Nov 8th, 2009 04:17 pm |
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Read and weep dudes. Those felt wick oilers had issues...it sure appears that way unless your fan was running around the clock. Do you think there is some form of lubrication approved by God himself then and now, I kinda doubt it...none the less, each man will have his opinion anyway..ya think? But...each man IS ENTITLED to his opinion. A good 20 weight non-detergent will do ya. Happy lubby dubby.
By the way the Emerson Engineer mentioned that later founded Century Electric is none other than Edwin Pillsbury. Annndd..the engineer visible in the picture is ...Lawrence Persons in the flesh.
http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=_JdMAAAAEBAJ&dq=1847666
The book..."A Century of Manufacturing" Emerson Electric Co. copyright 1989. Affordable good stuff. Attached Image (viewed 125 times):
 Last edited on Sun Nov 8th, 2009 05:10 pm by Russ Huber
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Russ Huber
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Posted: Sun Nov 8th, 2009 04:35 pm |
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Edwin Pillsbury(then Emerson engineer) motor patent to Emerson Electric.
http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=mcRcAAAAEBAJ&dq=583933
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John Fengel
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Posted: Sun Nov 8th, 2009 08:23 pm |
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John, you awake yet?? I think you posted on the wrong thread.
Nick
Nick,
Yessir, I'm awake. There is a post a few above mine where Barry mentions "popping the cap off" his Silver Swan and I was thinking (I shouldn't sometimes) that he was going to try to remove the cap located on the front of the Swan blade. That would be a no-no and would probably ruin his day and a good fan.
How's it going down in good old Royal Purple country? It was good to see you again at Stan's.
John
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Barry Michaels
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Posted: Sun Nov 8th, 2009 08:55 pm |
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Read you loud and clear on that, John. The Swan is running perfectly at the moment, (why mess with a good thing?) I have now added the proper oil due to the help of the nice people here.
It starts immediately, and when up to speed, any of them, runs smoothly and quietly.
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Steve Sherwood
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Posted: Sun Nov 8th, 2009 09:21 pm |
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Nick Rodnicki Jr wrote: Are we no longer allowed to talk about Royal Purple Synfilm ISO 68 and ISO 32 synthetic oils for fan motor bearing lubrication, as well as Royal Purple Max Tuff assembly lube? Five to ten years ago everyone swore by Royal Purple on the forum. I'm not saying Zoom Spout or 3 in 1 SAE 20 non-detergent are bad by any means, they are good too.
My opinion is that RP is expensive and there are other lubricants that are just as good if not better. We are working on fans,not cars that run at way higher temperatures. This what I use and have never had any problems with lubrication.
Steve Sherwood
Attached Image (viewed 85 times):
 Last edited on Sun Nov 8th, 2009 09:27 pm by Steve Sherwood
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Ralph Bliss
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Posted: Sun Nov 8th, 2009 09:36 pm |
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| When I consider how long these old fans lasted with the lubricants originaly used, I realize that 3 in 1 (blue) or Zoom Spout is going to be just fine.
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John Fengel
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Posted: Sun Nov 8th, 2009 11:45 pm |
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I have now added the proper oil due to the help of the nice people here.
Barry,
Did you oil both ends? The front bearing on my Swan pedestal was completely worn out due to, what I beleive, was a lack of oil. Also, when you do tear into it, there are oil wicks inserted into holes above and below both bearings. On all I've torn down they've been almost non absorbent from the crusty old oil.
John
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Steve Stephens
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Posted: Sun Nov 8th, 2009 11:55 pm |
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John Fengel wrote:
Did you oil both ends? The front bearing on my Swan pedestal was completely worn out due to, what I beleive, was a lack of oil.
10" swan has two bearings and gets oiled front and rear. Oil ports have felt under them. 12" swan is a single bearing motor and gets oiled only in the rear. No felt in their oiling system. At least that's the way I THINK it is. Correct or not?
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John Fengel
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Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2009 12:19 am |
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10" swan has two bearings and gets oiled front and rear. Oil ports have felt under them. 12" swan is a single bearing motor and gets oiled only in the rear. No felt in their oiling system. At least that's the way I THINK it is. Correct or not?
Steve,
I have two 10", two 12" and one 12" pedestal and they all have oil ports front and rear. Both 12" Swans I have are 2 bearing motors. They remind me of the 6250 motors as they are cast and the front casting is removable.
John
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Steve Stephens
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Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2009 12:29 am |
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Now that's interesting John. I've only had one 12" swan and didn't take it apart to see what's in the engine. Thanks for the correction.
Steve
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Tim Pettman
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Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2009 12:34 am |
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12 inch swans definitely have front and rear bearings like the 10 inchers. They also have felt or "rope" wick as I have found in them. Problem with these is when you aquire one from the wild, it is easy to think its ok to just add some new oil and you are good to go. Problem is the old oil is now hard grease and will not allow the new oil to reach the bearing. the only way I have found to be sure is to dissamble the motor, drive out the old wick and grease, reassemble with new wick and new oil. Labor intensive to do this, but I will not run a swan without doing it. Also, careful with that blade. If it gets bent at all, they are a real challenge to bring back to true!
Tim
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Nick Rodnicki Jr
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Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2009 03:13 am |
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Steve Sherwood wrote: Nick Rodnicki Jr wrote: Are we no longer allowed to talk about Royal Purple Synfilm ISO 68 and ISO 32 synthetic oils for fan motor bearing lubrication, as well as Royal Purple Max Tuff assembly lube? Five to ten years ago everyone swore by Royal Purple on the forum. I'm not saying Zoom Spout or 3 in 1 SAE 20 non-detergent are bad by any means, they are good too.
My opinion is that RP is expensive and there are other lubricants that are just as good if not better. We are working on fans,not cars that run at way higher temperatures. This what I use and have never had any problems with lubrication.
Steve Sherwood
Just call me spoiled. I guess my problem is that I work on old cars and old fans.
Although, the industrial ISO 32 and ISO 68 oils are made specifically for electric motors and turbines.
It's mainly all about what oils are convenient and readily available to buy for all of us in the hobby across the nation.
I'm going to call RP tomorrow and see what cases or quart bottles are going for, just for grins.
Nick
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Nick Rodnicki Jr
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Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2009 03:14 am |
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Tim Pettman wrote: 12 inch swans definitely have front and rear bearings like the 10 inchers. They also have felt or "rope" wick as I have found in them. Problem with these is when you aquire one from the wild, it is easy to think its ok to just add some new oil and you are good to go. Problem is the old oil is now hard grease and will not allow the new oil to reach the bearing. the only way I have found to be sure is to dissamble the motor, drive out the old wick and grease, reassemble with new wick and new oil. Labor intensive to do this, but I will not run a swan without doing it. Also, careful with that blade. If it gets bent at all, they are a real challenge to bring back to true!
Tim
Great Info.!!!!
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Nick Rodnicki Jr
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Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2009 03:18 am |
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Russ Huber wrote: Read and weep dudes. Those felt wick oilers had issues...it sure appears that way unless your fan was running around the clock. Do you think there is some form of lubrication approved by God himself then and now, I kinda doubt it...none the less, each man will have his opinion anyway..ya think? But...each man IS ENTITLED to his opinion. A good 20 weight non-detergent will do ya. Happy lubby dubby.
By the way the Emerson Engineer mentioned that later founded Century Electric is none other than Edwin Pillsbury. Annndd..the engineer visible in the picture is ...Lawrence Persons in the flesh.
http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=_JdMAAAAEBAJ&dq=1847666
The book..."A Century of Manufacturing" Emerson Electric Co. copyright 1989. Affordable good stuff.
Yep, just read it on page 69. Great stuff!!
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