AFCA Forums > Antique Fan Collectors Association > Pre-1950 (Antique) > My First Fan! Now to Clean it Up!
AFCA Forums > Antique Fan Collectors Association > Pre-1950 (Antique) > My First Fan! Now to Clean it Up! |
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Jon Strack Guest
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Hello all, As you probably know, I have been itchy to get an antique fan. I was planning on going to the Saylorsburg Flea Market, but it was rained out. However, in my travels, I passed a small antique store that I hadn't visited before. Stopped in and was greeted by a small 50's Westinghouse. Thought "hmm, this store may have potential." Saw a neat old GE 16" Vortalex. Kept going, figuring I would check out the store before making my decision. Then I saw it, tucked in a corner under a table: a black 16" S-Cage. Turned out to be a Robbins & Myers 1604SP. Headwire is in good shape, and still even has the felt base. Powercord is rubber lampcord under a rubber shield, and still pliable. I'm guessing it was replaced at some point. Plugged it in and it ran nice and quiet. Looked to be in good shape, paint is still there and in good shape. As far as I can tell, it looks like it *might* be missing the oscillator screw, but I'm not sure. The oscillator screw turns, but the shaft doesn't move. I hoped that someone on the forum would know where to get a screw if need be, so I picked it up. I wanted to grab the Vortalex too, but couldn't afford it, and decided I only really needed one project right now. I wanted to get more info from you guys regarding this fan. I'll tell you everything I know, in the hopes that you can identify it for me. It's a 16" 3 speed oscillator. Here's the info on the plate: LIST: 1604SP Serial: M14975P I can't figure out what the blades are made out of. They are black, and a magnet does not stick to them. The slide switch on the base reads off, high, medium, low Does anyone know about when this was made? Anything in particular I should be aware of in regard to disassembly / cleaning of this fan? Thanks, Jon Attached Image (viewed 466 times): Last edited on Sat Jun 20th, 2009 11:48 pm by Jon Strack |
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Richard Larson AFCA Member 
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Take some pictures and post them for us Jon. Congrats on your first fan!! |
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Jon Strack Guest
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Here's the back. Let me know if you need to see anything in particular. -Jon Attached Image (viewed 454 times): |
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Ralph Bliss AFCA Member 
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Jon,is the base cast iron or stamped steel? pictures would help to identify it. |
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Ralph Bliss AFCA Member
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looks to be from about mid 1930's |
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Jon Strack Guest
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I don't know what the base is made of. Here's a pic: Attached Image (viewed 450 times): |
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Jon Strack Guest
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Side shot: Attached Image (viewed 448 times): |
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Ralph Bliss AFCA Member
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I'd guess the base and motor housing are steel. Cast iron is much thicker and heaver. The blades, if not steel, might be brass. I'm not sure what other metals were used for blades in the 30's. |
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Jon Strack Guest
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Here's a question I've been pondering: How do I separate the blade from the cage? This cage appears to be a one piece affair, with no struts. It looks like in order to get the cage off, I would have to loosen the blade set screw and take it off with it. Any other thoughts as to how to do this? BTW, this fan weighs like a stone! Never felt anything so heavy in my life! -Jon |
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Austin B Ko AFCA Member 
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Ralph Bliss wrote: I'd guess the base and motor housing are steel. Cast iron is much thicker and heaver. The blades, if not steel, might be brass. I'm not sure what other metals were used for blades in the 30's.The blades are aluminum if I am correct.  |
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Jon Strack Guest
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I was going to guess aluminum to look at it, but I didn't know if they used aluminum at that time. |
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Bill Kreiner AFCA Member 
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This fan is not in my 1934 catalog. Judging from the cage design, it's newer than that. |
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Steve Stephens AFCA Member 
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Jon, I think that may be the first of many fans in your future. Congratulations. Stamped steel base and motor, aluminum blades, mid-30s but not sure exactly when. Good chance it's a 6 pole motor unless R&M also used 4 poles on their fans of that period. The blades look deeply pitched which would indicate a 6 pole motor making the fan run slower and quieter. The cage should come off by removing the screws holding the cage wires to the motor front and the blade has a set screw. I don't know if both have to come off together or if you can work the cage over the blades or the blade out through the cage as is sometimes the case. You'd swear you can't get the blade out of the cage but, finally, you see how to. Try to remember that so you can get them back together without pulling your hair out. I hope it gets hot in the USA as that's a big air mover. Out here in my part of California it doesn't get hot that often so smaller fans are what get used. I can't help you on the oscillator screw or whatever might be missing or not working as I'm not familiar with that mechanism. Slightly earlier R&M oscillators had a thumbscrew on the side of the oscillator wheel that you'd screw in or out to reduce or increase the degree of oscillation. |
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Jon Strack Guest
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Steve, You nailed it about the oscillator! I found the screw and turned it, and voila, she oscillates! Thanks for the tip! -Jon |
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Jon Strack Guest
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What would be appropriate as far as the power cord goes? I'm assuming it was cotton covered wire originally? Where would be a place to get that? Perhaps Radio Daze? |
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Ralph Bliss AFCA Member
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Jon, PM your address and I'll send you some cloth covered power cord. |
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Alison Fea AFCA Member 
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Congrats & good luck Jon! |
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Jon Strack Guest
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Ralph, PM Sent Thanks a lot! -Jon Ralph Bliss wrote: Jon, PM your address and I'll send you some cloth covered power cord. |
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Jon Strack Guest
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Thanks Alison! I am excited to get start on this one. I can tell it's not going to be easy: While trying to take the cage off, the second nut I came across was the wrong type, and as a result, has stripped the bolt! So, it looks like I'll have to take everything off the back with the cage still attached, and get in there to somehow keep the bolt from moving. Plus, it's missing another nut. Oy. This is going to be an adventure! -Jon Alison Fea wrote: Congrats & good luck Jon! |
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Jon Strack Guest
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I found out why the screw appeared to be stripped. Some knucklehead took the nut off the front of the motor housing and used it to secure the cage! No wonder the cage sat crooked.Last edited on Sun Jun 21st, 2009 01:42 am by Jon Strack |
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Ralph Bliss AFCA Member
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Let the adventure begin!!  |
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Jon Strack Guest
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As far as basic cleaning goes, would an all purpose cleaner like Fantastik be okay? Or would that be too weak? I have an old toothbrush that I could gently use in more stubborn spots. |
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Steve Stephens AFCA Member
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I've used both WD-40 on a rag or with a toothbrush and, also, non-abrasive waterless hand cleaner to clean fans. Not sure what Fantastic would do. |
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Nicholas Denney AFCA Member 
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Bill Kreiner wrote: This fan is not in my 1934 catalog. Judging from the cage design, it's newer than that. This is the 16" version of the 1304... both are post-Depression fans so they shouldn't be much newer, IMO. |
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Jon Strack Guest
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I also have Bon Ami cleaner which is a dry powder. Works well for cleaning sinks, stove tops, etc: http://www.bonami.com/uses/intro.html EDIT: While inspecting the blade, I had the saddening discovery that one of the blades has a small bend in it. Nothing wicked, but enough to be disturbing. Last edited on Sun Jun 21st, 2009 02:08 am by Jon Strack |
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Jon Strack Guest
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I see there are no pictures of the 1604 in the Gallery. Once it's cleaned up, I would be happy to submit a picture if that's possible? |
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Steve Stephens AFCA Member
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Isn't Bon Ami somewhat abrasive? It may say it's not but feel it when wet with water. Jon, does your fan's motor tag have the following patent on it? 2120321 http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=hT9KAAAAEBAJ&dq=patent:2120321&as_drrb_ap=q&as_minm_ap=0&as_miny_ap=&as_maxm_ap=0&as_maxy_ap=&as_drrb_is=q&as_minm_is=0&as_miny_is=&as_maxm_is=0&as_maxy_is= That patent is from 1938 which would make your fan no older than '38. There is a 12" 1304 in our gallery with the date on the tag. Motor nuts: Check out that patent; it will probably be of more interest to you than what I understand. Bends in blades can sometimes be removed entirely. If the bend is right at the edge of the rivets or blade wing it may be hard to impossible. One thing you want to watch for on fans is bent blades, mainly creased or sharply bent blades as well as blades that are out of clock with all wings not equidistant from each other. You'll learn in time what to watch out for but, for now, you are learning the best way by working on your own new fan. Last edited on Sun Jun 21st, 2009 02:14 am by Steve Stephens |
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Bill Kreiner AFCA Member
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Nicholas Denney wrote: Bill Kreiner wrote:This fan is not in my 1934 catalog. Judging from the cage design, it's newer than that. Well, the Depression didn't officially end for the U.S. until we entered WWII in late 1941, though there had been a few less severe years scattered throughout the 1930s. The cage design looks late-1930s or early-1940s to me. Here is a page from my '34 catalog. Note the angularity and straightness of the cages. Attached Image (viewed 380 times): |
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Jon Strack Guest
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Steve, I didn't use the Bon Ami. So far, I've just been using water to clean the fan blade, as it seems to be the only thing I have that's ok so far! I'll try a little WD-40 if I have any greasy spots until I can get some Mother's Mag and Aluminum polish. I couldn't find any tags on the motor at all, just one on the base which doesn't have any patents on it. Where would I find the motor tag? |
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Jon Strack Guest
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The blade has a slight crease right at the rivets Is this a death knell? |
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Steve Stephens AFCA Member
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No death to your fan but it probably won't be perfect. You might find a blade somewhere that is good though those fans aren't too common. Your fan is probably a little earlier than the 1304 in the gallery which has this base tag, below, and has to be no earlier than 1938. (No motor tags on these fans) Be sure to CLEAN the fan before you polish it. I think you will need something more than water for cleaning, especially if the fan has the usual accumulation of old oil and grease around the motor and oscillator. That stuff can be hard to remove while leaving the paint ok. Attached Image (viewed 361 times): Last edited on Sun Jun 21st, 2009 02:43 am by Steve Stephens |
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Jon Strack Guest
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I definitely need more than water to clean it. I'll have to try to get a hold of something stronger. There's an article under the info section recommending brake cleaner, but it sounds like occasionally it could be harmful to the paint. What do you guys recommend? Also, my base plate looks the same as the one above. Last edited on Sun Jun 21st, 2009 02:51 am by Jon Strack |
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Bill Kreiner AFCA Member
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Jon Strack wrote: I definitely need more than water to clean it. I'll have to try to get a hold of something stronger. There's an article under the info section recommending brake cleaner, but it sounds like occasionally it could be harmful to the paint. What do you guys recommend? As long as you don't leave the brake cleaner on the paint for too long, it shouldn't ruin it. Gary Heidenfeldt told me about using brake cleaner (mainly for bare metal surfaces), and it works wonders. |
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Duane Burright AFCA Member 
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Jon Strack wrote: I definitely need more than water to clean it. I'll have to try to get a hold of something stronger. There's an article under the info section recommending brake cleaner, but it sounds like occasionally it could be harmful to the paint. What do you guys recommend? I cleaned up a 50's vintage Signal using just dish soap and hot water with a soft bristle brush. Be sure to remove all electrical components before doing that of course. I use Brake Cleaner only to degrease things like oscillator gearboxes and such. |
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John Fengel AFCA Member 
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I definitely need more than water to clean it. Buy yourself a small container of Go-Jo Hand Original Hand Cleaner to remove the old grease. It will be the one without the pumice in it. Take a small piece of FINE Scotch Bright, wet it with the Go-Jo and scrub away. You can rinse it off with water or a wet rag. Once you have the grease and oil off it, use some Maguire's 3 step system.... Paint Cleaner, Paint Polish and Carnauba Wax to shine it up. Each Maguire product is sold in its own bottle. Some of the Westinghouse fans had pretty thin paint. I would be careful using Brake Cleaner as it may remove the paint. Good luck. John |
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Bill Kreiner AFCA Member
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Duane Burright wrote: Jon Strack wrote:I definitely need more than water to clean it. I'll have to try to get a hold of something stronger. There's an article under the info section recommending brake cleaner, but it sounds like occasionally it could be harmful to the paint. What do you guys recommend? I use dish soap and water, too, quite often. Dow "Scrubbing Bubbles" also works well on some things. |
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William Schaub AFCA Member 
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Try grease cutting dish soap and/or glass cleaner. |
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Ralph Bliss AFCA Member
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Dawn dish detergent works very good, it really cuts through the dirt and grease well. There is a product called Super Clean, DONT use it on painted parts, its so strong it will melt the paint! |
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Jon Strack Guest
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Good morning everyone, It sounds like dish detergent is the way to go. I didn't get very far last night. I just got the cage and blade off, and did a little cleaning on the blade. Unfortunately, I won't be able to work on it again until this weekend, as I work out of town, and of course today is father's day. It looks like so far, I'll need two acorn nuts, as it's missing two. -Jon |
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Steve Stephens AFCA Member
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This looks like your fan now on ebay Jon. http://cgi.ebay.com/Antique-18-Robbins-Myers-Oscillating-3-Speed-Fan_W0QQitemZ120438550045QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1c0ab26e1d&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A3%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1205%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A100 |
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Jon Strack Guest
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That sure does look a lot like mine. The only difference I see is: on my tag, each number has a light background, instead of a dark one- thus it is easier to read than this one, which has a black background. I come home from work on Thursday. Can't wait to get my fan cleaned up and running great! |
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John Hilliard AFCA Member 
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Jon, I have a R&M 1604 parts fan incase you need something to fix yours up. Just let me know. John  |
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Jon Strack Guest
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Thanks John H! I haven't really gotten into it yet, so I don't know what I'm dealing with yet. So far, the only thing I could see myself needing is a blade, as mine is bent, and out of balance (creased, shimmys when run). Otherwise it's smooth. I'll know more when I get the oscillator gearbox off and the motor housing open. Hope to do that this weekend. -Jon |
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Dean Robbins AFCA Member
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Jon, You will be able to find a liquid in a plastic container, in an automotive paint store, that when sprayed or brushed on rust will in 24 hours turn the rust into a white powder. This you can just brush off and then not worry about the rust coming back. In Georgia, locally, it is sold under the name of phoscote. It runs about $9.00 a quart if memory serves me right. I have used it many times and it works great. I have had the quart , I bought, for several years. It goes a long way. Hope this helps. Good luck, Dean |
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Jon Strack Guest
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Hello again, I just received some awesome black braided power cord from Ralph (thanks again!). Now I am wondering, where would you guys recommend looking for a plug? What type of plug would be most appropriate for this fan? The cord on it now has a basic round plug that I could remove and re-use, but I wasn't sure if it would be the most appropriate, plus it's insulation is not in the best shape. Thanks, Jon |
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Steve Stephens AFCA Member
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I've found old plugs at lamp shops and appliance repair shops. They often have old ones in boxes they'll sell for a few dollars and even some older bakelite plugs from the 20s if you are lucky. |
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Jon Strack Guest
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I opened up the oscillator housing for the first time today. There's a lot of grease caked around the sides, but overall it looks pretty good. However, I couldn't figure out how to go any further. It looks like I need to take some gears out before I can get the motor housing off, but I am unsure how to do this. Any ideas? -Jon |
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Steve Stephens AFCA Member
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I can't advise on gearbox or gear removal as I've never seen one of those fans. If the grease is old and hardened some you will want to clean it all out and put in new grease. Don't have to fill it up but enough to coat the gears and keep them coated. Maybe I like non-oscillators since they don't have all that complication in the rear. |
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Jon Strack Guest
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Hello again, On the upside, the headwire is in good shape. I'm thinking of leaving it alone, as it looks original and is still quite sound inside. I forgot to take a picture when I had the bottom open. As far as opening the motor, is it the front that comes off, or the back? -Jon |
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Jon Strack Guest
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Hello again, I'm working on the fan again  . I disconnected the headwire so I could take the motor off the base. I took a good digital photo of the wiring and made all kinds of notations on it with photoshop explaining what everything is. I even used color codes!I took resistance measurements with my DMM and notated everything. So far, the AC cable and headwire have been removed, while the speed coil is still connected. The problem I am having is I can't figure out how to open the motor up! I took the top cover off the oscillator gearbox. On the inside of the cover are the numbers "66872A" if that means anything. I'm not positive about the 4th digit, but I *think* it's a seven. Is that a patent number? I also took the four long bolts off the motor, but I can't get the housing open and didn't want to force it. My question is this- which side opens- the front or the back? On the back, I can see the oscillator housing is attached from INSIDE with two screws, so there's no getting the oscillator housing off from outside, unlike an Emerson. This makes me think that perhaps the front comes off? If so, is there something else I need to take off before it will come off, or is just really hard to get off? I tried some gentle taps with a hammer, but I don't know how brittle this metal is and didn't want to break it! It's extremely heavy, that's for sure! Do I perhaps need to take some kind of washer or spring clip off or something? The covers aren't moving in the slightest. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! -Jon EDIT: I'm in, the front cover was really on there! Just had to give it a few more raps. Last edited on Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 12:17 am by Jon Strack |
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Jon Strack Guest
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Hey John Hilliard, Do you have an oscillator set screw? It looks like I AM missing that after all! I'm talking about the one in the base, not the one on the spinning wheel under the osc. assembly. Am I correct that there is supposed to be a screw here? Or is this an oil hole? See pic... -Jon Attached Image (viewed 56 times): Last edited on Wed Jul 1st, 2009 11:30 pm by Jon Strack |
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Jon Strack Guest
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Here's a pic of the wiring too, in case anyone's curious. Also, it looks like I might have to replace the headwire after all  . I rather like the elegant three conductor weaved cable that's in there, but the insulation is dry and rubs off when you touch it, so I'm thinking it should be redone. Where would be a good place to get something as similar as possible to this? It's three conductor braided, two are black with a pattern on it, (AC and speed control), while the ground wire is all black.Attached Image (viewed 55 times): |
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Jon Strack Guest
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rear housing is off too. It looks like the stator is not removeable in this fan. Am I correct? I think I can clean around it just fine where it is. |
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