AFCA Forums > Antique Fan Collectors Association > Pre-1950 (Antique) > Accurate dating of Westinghouse tank fans- need info
AFCA Forums > Antique Fan Collectors Association > Pre-1950 (Antique) > Accurate dating of Westinghouse tank fans- need info |
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Steve Stephens AFCA Member 
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Some of the Westy tank fans in the gallery are miss-dated and I would like to see that the dates are corrected but need help myself on how to accurately date. Please dig out your catalogs if you have them and see what they can tell us. 1. When did the solid WESTINGHOUSE badge first appear, replacing the stencil name badge? 2. What was the first year the 6 blade tank was offered? 3. What was the first year that tank fan were offered? I think that would be 1905 or was it 1904 that the small motor tanks appeared? Any other suggestions? 4. Any guesses as to when the tanks with the Oct. 9, 1906 patent date motor tag first appeared? One would think in late 1906 for the 1907 model year fans. What do you think? Most likely by 1908 I think. 5. What was the last year that tank fan were in catalogs? Was there an overlap in sales with the 1912 model year stamped steel fans? 6. If you see a Westinghouse fan in our gallery that isn't dated correctly please post here and I will see if Larry will change the date. But we need some evidence that the new date is more correct than the old one. I've been guessing that the solid badge appeared on the 1910 and 1911 models. There are enough of them to include two years I think. Likewise, my guesstimate was c.1909 for the appearance of the 6 blade tanks. Were they earlier? They don't seem to be included in what I have seen as a 1909 Westinghouse catalog page below. Some pages from the following catalogs have been posted here by Steve Cunningham from time to time. I have copies of his posts of 1905 Pettingell-Andrews Catalog Page 23, 1906 Westinghouse Fan Catalog Page 8, 1906 Westinghouse Fan Catalog Page 5, 1906 Westinhouse Fan Catalog Page 12, 1909 Westinghouse Fan Catalog Page 13, and 1909 Westinghouse Fan Catalog Page 25. Until the 1909 catalog only the 60677 and 60679 12 and 16" fans and their closely related versions in other than standard voltages are shown. The 1909 catalog adds the slightly higher voltage 80421 and the three speed 83239 and equivalent 16" versions but no 6 blade tanks unless they are shown on a page I don't have. Do you have any more info for us Steve C.? Thanks for any help anyone can give. It would be great to get all of our gallery fans dated as closely as possible to their actual model year. If anyone wants to tackle other galleries or newer fans please do so. I don't know much about non-brass fans. Attached Image (viewed 219 times): Last edited on Tue Jun 30th, 2009 03:27 am by Steve Stephens |
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Dave Rouse AFCA Member 
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Steve Stephens wrote: 5. What was the last year that tank fan were in catalogs? Was there an overlap in sales with the 1912 model year stamped steel fans? I have a (January) 1912 catalog. Tanks were still listed along with the announcement of the new stamped steel models. In addition to the stationary tanks, the double lever and vane oscillator tanks were still available, as were various voltages/cycles. |
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Russ Huber AFCA Member 
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Dave Rouse wrote: Steve Stephens wrote:5. What was the last year that tank fan were in catalogs? Was there an overlap in sales with the 1912 model year stamped steel fans? Westinghouse engineer Christian Aalborg was the man with the plan introducing the Westy stamp steel(drawn steel) oscillator filing late in 11. At roughly the same time he developed the tank double lever oscillator. So there was a period of time the tanks and drawn steels shared together. This is one of the first I am aware of attempts at the drawn steel Westy stationary.  Don't "think" it made it?  http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=IypIAAAAEBAJ&dq=1018543 I could of sworn I ran across another drawn steel Westy patent stationary more like the ones we are accustomed to seeing filed in 10? Last edited on Tue Jun 30th, 2009 04:06 pm by Russ Huber |
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Steve Stephens AFCA Member
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Dave Rouse wrote:I have a (January) 1912 catalog. Tanks were still listed along with the announcement of the new stamped steel models. In addition to the stationary tanks, the double lever and vane oscillator tanks were still available, as were various voltages/cycles. Dave, can you give some specifics regarding voltages offered in your catalog? Is the 6 blade tank listed? Sounds like an interesting catalog Dave with all the different offerings. Somehow it would be nice to know when each model of Tank was offered including the oscillator models, when the stencil badge gave way to the solid one, and all the other fun changes that occured during the approximately eight year run of the tank motors. |
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Dave Rouse AFCA Member
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Steve, I'm pretty sure that the 6 blade was still listed too. I'll check the catalog tonight, and let you know. Will check the specs on voltages, etc too. I do remember that there was a 3 speed tank listed, but it was only for an uncommon voltage/cycles, I think maybe 40 cycles. |
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Steve Stephens AFCA Member
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Dave Rouse wrote:
I'd be interested in knowing if the 3 speed tank was also available for the usual voltage that it was in the 1909 catalog. Might it be that Westinghouse had sold out of the 83241 60 cycle model but had some left over of the odd frequency models? |
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Dave Rouse AFCA Member
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Oops, sorry, it looks like the standard tank, ie: Stationary, (swivel and trunnion) was no longer offered in 1912. At least not in their catalog. I’m sure there was likely old stock still available, but they would have been the previous year’s, or earlier models. The tanks, or cast iron frames as the catalog calls them, that were still available in 1912 were mechanical oscillators (double lever) and air driven oscillators (vane). These fans according to the pictures had solid banners on the cage, not the cut out types. And, for those who may be interested, here is an excerpt from the catalog describing the blades of all their desk fans: ‘The blades are made of heavy gauge brass; they are firmly riveted to a spider and are highly polished.’ Here are some of the stats listed in the catalog: (There is more data listed. One of these days, when I finally get a new home computer, I’ll scan these pages and post them in their entirety. 12 inch and 16 inch Mechanically Operated (double lever) Oscillating Fan Motors Cast Iron Frames (Alternating Current) Cycles Volts Speeds 12” style # 16# style # 25-30 105-115 2 149172 149184 50 100-110 3 149176 149188 50 200-230 3 149175 149187 60 100-110 2 149178 149190 60 111-120 2 149228 149229 60 200-230 2 149177 149189 133 100-115 1 149180-a 149192-a 133 200-230 1 149179-a 149191-a (Direct Current) Volts Speeds 12” style # 16# style # 100-115 3 149168 149182 200-230 3 149167 149181 12 inch and 16 inch Air Operated (Vane) Oscillating Fan Motors Cast Iron Frames (Alternating Current) Cycles Volts Speeds 12” style # 16# style # 25-30 105-115 1 115689-a 115690-a 25-30 210-230 1 115691-a 115692-a 40 100-125 1 115693-a 115694-a 40 200-250 1 115695-a 115696-a 50 100-125 1 115685-a 115686-a 50 200-250 1 115687-a 115688-a 60 100-110 2 115675-a 115676-a 60 111-120 2 115677-a 115678-a 60 200-230 2 115679-a 115680-a 133 100-115 1 115681-a 130176-a 133 200-230 1 115683-a 130177-a (Direct Current) Volts Speeds 12” style # 16# style # 100-115 3 115746 115747 200-230 3 115748 115749 For 12” Residence (6 Blade) Air-operated oscillator (vane) fans in cast iron (all other 6 blade fans for 1912 were in Steel frame only. Looks like they didn’t make the 16” 6 blade in 1912. Either cast iron or steel frame) Cycles Volts Speeds 12” style # 60 100-110 2 133609-a 60 111-120 2 133610-a 60 200-230 2 133611-a Last edited on Wed Jul 1st, 2009 08:04 pm by Dave Rouse |
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Steve Stephens AFCA Member
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Thanks Dave for your posted info. Now we know that Westinghouse probably did fully replace the (non-oscillating) tanks with their new stamped steel motors for the 1912 fan season. It would be interesting to know if Westinghouse made more of the tank motor oscillators than they could sell, so included them in the 1912 catalog for clearance. Was a stamped steel oscillator offered in the catalog? Or did it come along the next year or later in the 1912 season do you think or know? Are the 6 wing stamped steel fans offered in both staty and osc.? No problem with the HIGHLY POLISHED brass blades on Westy tanks and later- I agree- as that's how I find them on original fans. Probably as shiny as a Frank & Newcity special. It's interesting, too, to see that they were still making the two voltage range fans (100-110 and 111-120) that they started as early as 1909. Other companies seem to have done something similar with different (but close) voltages available. I wonder how the company decided on how many speeds each version of their tanks would have. I have 1, 2, and 3 speed tank fans and all are 60 cycles. You typed all that info by hand? Thanks for the effort Dave. Last edited on Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 04:45 am by Steve Stephens |
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Russ Huber AFCA Member
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Steve Stephens wrote: Thanks Dave for your posted info. Now we know that Westinghouse probably did fully replace the tanks with their new stamped steel motors for the 1912 fan season. The tanks, or cast iron frames as the catalog calls them, that were still available in 1912 were mechanical oscillators (double lever) and air driven oscillators (vane). These fans according to the pictures had solid banners on the cage, not the cut out types. ~Dave Rouse http://www.google.com/patents?q=Christian+Aalborg+fan&btnG=Search+Patents The stamp steel oscillator patent was filed in 11 by Aalborg. Last edited on Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 04:45 am by Russ Huber |
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Russ Huber AFCA Member
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Steve Stephens wrote:
http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=sYtBAAAAEBAJ&dq=1173568  |
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Russ Huber AFCA Member
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I found a 60677 today....two struts missing....two wings with wrinkle damage....the rest.....near mint......two speed. Life is good. |
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Russ Huber AFCA Member
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Check out the patent filing date on this stamp steel stationary from Aalborg. http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=GK9UAAAAEBAJ&dq=1107241 Last edited on Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 05:15 am by Russ Huber |
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Dave Rouse AFCA Member
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Steve Stephens wrote: Was a stamped steel oscillator offered in the catalog? Or did it come along the next year or later in the 1912 season do you think or know? Are the 6 wing stamped steel fans offered in both staty and osc.? Yes Steve, the stamped (or drawn as they say in the catalog) steel oscillators were offered in 1912 in addition to the stationary. And I think the 6 wings were available in both, but I took the catalog home, so I can't verify right now. (I'll check tonight, and if I'm wrong, I'll edit this post and correct) Yes, I typed all that by hand. Used MS Outlook to edit it, then copied it here. I wouldn't have bothered doing it by hand, but I don't have a scanner here at work, and my home computer is so slow, I don't want to mess with it. We're planning on replacing it soon, so then it won't be a big deal, and I'll be happy to scan the whole catalog. |
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